Faunalytics Interview

[00:00:01]

Hi and welcome today’s great dot.com talks with Fono lyrics dot org and the purpose of our podcast is to explain what what great organizations do in a way that is easy to understand. And finally, Alex is a US based non-profit organization that empower animal advocates with access to research and analysis strategies and messages that can maximize their effectiveness to reduce animal suffering. And I’m here today with someone that I already like for my little introduction talk, Brooke Haggarty, who is the acting executive director at PHONER Lyrics. Brooke, hi. Welcome. And did I get that right?

[00:00:48]

Hello. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, you nailed it on the head. That’s perfect.

[00:00:55]

All right, so how would you describe what fun Olympics do to someone that is not familiar with your cost and the problems that you are facing?

[00:01:04]

Absolutely. So we have a big mission and I’m happy to break it down a little bit. So in simplest terms, faunal attack saves animals lives by helping animal advocates be as effective as possible. So we believe that the best way to change the world is to understand it. So we encourage societal change through research and education. So what does that mean? So far, analytics conducts original research studies and we host a comprehensive research library online for animal advocates. And the purpose is to give them the information they need in order to maximize their impact in their own work.

[00:01:43]

So the word animal advocate, I don’t get images in my mind. What does that encompass? For someone who’s not familiar?

[00:01:53]

Absolutely. So an animal advocate can be a number of things, a number of people. Final attic’s works quite a bit with organizations, particularly in the animal protection movement. So organizations that are working in animal welfare or animal rights in one way or the other, we tend to focus on organizations working on farm to animal issues. But that’s not the only issue that faunal attic’s will tackle, particularly in our research library. Animal advocates can also just be your average person who’s doing what they can to make the world a better place for animals. So this can be individuals within an organization. This can be someone who has their own nine to five day job, but they do what they can to volunteer for organizations or to promote animal protection in their own ways. So an animal advocate, I think in the simplest sense is someone who stands up for the animals in whatever way they can.

[00:02:48]

All right, so small or big. You want to serve everyone who wants to help animals. So what are your biggest challenges then run into serving a station? Is it defined these people reach out to them? Is it to do good research?

[00:03:02]

Yes. I think there’s a few challenges that we face as funnel addicts and then a few challenges that are our movement faces. So fortunately, we’re moving toward the idea of research and data to understand how to tackle big problems, not just in the animal sector, but hopefully in multiple causes. And that’s a good thing. But it’s not something that’s been in place for a long time. Analytics is actually one of the first organizations to promote the use of research and data when thinking about what strategies work best to influence people, to change people’s minds and to inspire compassion for animals. So the challenge is getting people and organizations to use that research and to think more strategically. I think another challenge that everyone in the non nonprofit sector face before we move on to them.

[00:03:55]

Oh, sure. Yes. Just to clarify. So the research you’re doing then is on which weighs. You can communicate that are influencing people to make different decisions the most more than research. Let’s say this man animals suffers in this way.

[00:04:14]

Correct. However, they oftentimes feed into one another. So, for example, we’re doing several studies right now. One of them is on using social norms, messaging and advocacy. So what messages do people respond to, such as eliminate meat from your diet vs. reduce your meat consumption? One of them is a longitudinal study on new vegetarians and begins. So understanding what people need to stay with that diet versus what makes people move away from that diet after trying it. So you have different examples. One on the messaging side. One more on the behavior side. And our research can take many forms. We either wanted to save many animals lives and or be useful to many advocates.

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Ok.

[00:05:07]

So I have to ask this question, and I got your number two in the back of my mind to move forward. If someone here is a B again or is an animal friend, look, how can they communicate to the people around it? What does the data say to reach them? What’s the most important thing to think about?

[00:05:25]

Well, that’s that’s the big question that our research aims to answer. So, for example, in our social norm study, which for publishing next month. So you’re actually getting a sneak peak preview. We learned that the reduced victarion message was the better way to go. So by that, I mean instead of saying stop eating meat, which is our end goal as a movement, it’s better to start out saying, hey, can you actually just try to eat less meat, maybe try to go Meatless Monday, for example? So that’s what that study taught us, was that the reduce the Terrian message is a little bit better of a strategy. So it every study we tackle answers, answers, different questions. And I think that’s the wonderful thing about our research libraries. Advocates start with one question like you, but then they realized there’s going to be more questions to follow up. Yeah, exactly. So that’s what they dive into a research library and go down that wonderful rabbit hole to find out even more.

[00:06:22]

I have another question. OK. Meatless Monday. That’s my approach now to incense my friends. So should I tell them that meat is bad? Should I showed him how lovely vegan vegetarian food can taste?

[00:06:35]

It really depends on the person. And that’s the wonderful thing about in person advocacy. So our studies don’t necessarily follow up with each individual. And what works works best on a one on one. The best thing is to find out what works best. So if you’re an advocate talking to that person, they say, OK, I’m willing to go meatless on Monday. The follow up would then be what barriers do you see that you might encounter to stop you from going meatless on Monday? And each person is going to have a different thing. They’re going to say, oh, I don’t know. Our vegan food is or oh, my family is going to give me a hard time for this. And at that point, we can give them additional resources that they need in order to succeed in that goal.

[00:07:15]

That makes sense.

[00:07:19]

My brain is super strategic and allow me to map out like I used to have the lutely, I used to play poker professionally for 10 years before this, and the ways you turn people into vegans is like to say, I would have to play this game where admin’s varied by.

[00:07:36]

And that’s exactly why we support all organizations. Right. So it’s not just for analytics work, figuring out these little tricks so that other organizations can say, OK, we learn this little insight from Phon Alex. We learned that this works better with this. We learned that this term is better, that this image is better. For example, last year we did a study to figure out if it’s better to use an image of one animal versus a statistic of billions of animals, for example. And that study actually proved that it didn’t make a statistical difference whether you use an image of one versus many. So we’re trying to figure out all these little tricks that advocates and organizations can use. And so as a team, as a movement, that’s our goal is eliminating animal suffering through any form, whether that’s eating less meat, going vegan, etc..

[00:08:26]

This approach is so new to me, I haven’t thought about how much good you can actually do by because. My guess is that a lot of the answers you found can be quite counterintuitive. Which provides an environment where people will make a lot of mistakes without your research.

[00:08:47]

Exactly. And that’s the thing is we as a movement historically have had to kind of rely on instinct. We haven’t had the data to answer these questions. So animal advocates have kind of been flying blind. What what do we think is best? And exactly like you said, sometimes what we find out is counter-intuitive. It just depends on the advocates frame of mind. But I think that’s the important thing in what final attic’s does, is ultimately we’re also helping organizations save resources, right? Stop using ineffective strategies or ineffective messages. Put your time and your efforts into what we’ve already discovered is statistically more effective.

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All right. I love this idea so much and so I want to close loops. You said that you were facing I think was it two challenges you were facing a jury search you off after one?

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Well, not just us.

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I have to give a shout out to the entire nonprofit sector, as always. One of the challenge is getting the word out and doing so because the nonprofit sector operates on limited funding. So we’re an NGO. We work based on the generosity of our supporters who donate to make our work possible. So if we had unlimited funding, we would be producing so many more studies. Right. But because we only have so much funding, our steady output is probably around six independent studies per year. So original studies that we conduct and then we have about 4000 library entries on our research library. We add about 200 per year, which summarize external studies. And that’s, in my opinion, quite a bit. I think we’re doing so well, we do so much and I’m proud of our output. But if the nonprofit sector had unlimited funding, imagine what a world we could create. Imagine how much good we could do.

[00:10:44]

I’m smiling that when I see these pictures, so I’m curious about something.

[00:10:48]

So let’s say that some.

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Some Ayliffe could whispering in your ear. The answer to one of the questions you’re doing research on right now. Which one are you the most curious about to get to the bottom with?

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Oh, I’ve. I want to know all of them. I want all the answers. I am particularly excited. Oh, I can’t. I can’t choose just one.

[00:11:14]

Well, there’s a study we’re going to be doing later this year. It’s on the lineup for probably our third quarter. The study on cultural barriers in a non western country. So our goal is to partner with an organization most likely in India or China. And we want to figure out what are the barriers and supports to the reduction of animal consumption in one of those countries. So there’s a lot of work happening in the United States and in different Western countries. But when it comes to number of animals slaughtered, the number is even higher in a country like China. So I’m excited to start working on studies in different countries because the animal suffering is just as great there. So I personally don’t know what to expect of that one. What are the barriers in a different country? You have a whole nother culture to consider. And that’s where I wouldn’t even begin to guess on my own.

[00:12:12]

Worse. Yeah.

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Different cultures need a different message.

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What other cities, different social norms that each fan have, it’s tradition working its way into things, so it’s gonna be a big thing to tackle.

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I think this is very important for people to understand. If they tried to spread the message of vegetarianism, that so which other division divisions of people do you see? Men and women? Maybe it races countries. What are some very distinct ones that you know?

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Well, I think well, there’s a lot of other research that’s been done. I don’t necessarily phonics Reese final lyrics, research where we see, for example, women are more likely to donate to animal causes index fund. All attic’s did do some research on who’s most likely to support an animal cause, not just any cause. Most people who donate to animal causes donate to companion animal charities. So think shelters as opposed to farmed animal issues. So statistically, women will donate more, but that doesn’t mean that men don’t donate either. So that’s one example of the demographic split and it’s kind of easy to think, OK, if women donate more, maybe they’re the ones who are easiest to target when it comes to something like eating less meat.

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Have you done research on who has the most influence over food choices in the household? Men or women who.

[00:13:39]

That’s an interesting. That’s important, right? That’s an interesting question, because you wouldn’t necessarily want to assume who does all the cooking or anything like that.

[00:13:48]

So it could be that I have guy friends who said, no, I I’m not eating fish, for example. Mm hmm. And then the woman has to. Change if she is the one cooking in that household.

[00:14:01]

Huh, that’s an interesting question. We haven’t done that research. As soon as we’re done, I’ll have to hop online and see if somebody else has done their research.

[00:14:12]

That becomes an important factor. I would say, mm, yeah. Mm hmm.

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So tell me, what success is your organization the most proud of? So far.

[00:14:24]

Well.

[00:14:25]

A few, if I may. Do I have to choose just one? Yes, you may. Oh, good. Thank you. Well, one of the things that we already touched on is I’m really proud of the role for

analytics has played in getting organizations and advocates to be more data driven. I think we’re seeing that tremendously in recent years and we’re proud to have played a role in that evolution because we are one of the first organizations to focus on that effective animal advocacy tactic.

[00:14:53]

Another thing I would say is.

[00:14:56]

I think as an organization, we’re very proud of our output. We’ve produced dozens of studies and partner projects that we know organizations have already used directly in their own advocacy and in their own work. And the relationships we’ve built with organizations over the years which have take time to cultivate, have allowed us to simultaneously figure out what research is needed. So it’s not just our organization figuring out what studies we want to do. We need that input from the animal detection movement. What studies do you need? What do you think is most applicable to your work? And I’m proud of the relationships we’ve built in that way.

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And.

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Also recently, we have been named once again a standout charity by animal charity evaluators. They’re a big organization. Yes. That reviews charities for their effectiveness. And they’re fantastic. They do great work in addition to charity reviews. And we’ve once again been named a standout charity, which were one of only a few. So very proud of that. And we have our team to thank for all of the above. Our work wouldn’t be possible without our staff, our board and our volunteers who make our work possible. So little shout out to them. Wonderful.

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Mm hmm.

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What challenges do you see in moving forward, in getting the data out there?

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Well, there’s a few challenges that I think we’re actually ready to tackle. We’ve realized that we’re at a point where we can grow our team a little bit to help get the research to advocates and organizations. I think as leaders in other organizations are going about their very busy days. It’s important for fun, Alex, to play the role of, hey, take a look at the study, take a look at this research. Take a look at this. What we found out and be b reminder for them of our research as opposed to just relying on them to come to us. And we’re at a point where we’re growing as an organization where we can start working on that issue. So it’s historically been a challenge, but this year particular, we’re really focused on increasing our own impact, which means getting our research out in front of the community and doing research on how to reach organizations.

[00:17:18]

We do research. I can’t tell you how to do this.

[00:17:24]

So let’s now imagine that someone listening to this, previously unaware of the fact that someone is doing reaches research on how to reach people with a vegetarian message. If you’re super excited about your cost, thinks this is hugely important. They see human animal lives could potentially be impacted through your work. What is some important things someone can do to help you guys out?

[00:17:51]

Well, I would say the easiest thing, an important thing someone can do is to sign up for our newsletter. It takes two clicks and it’s really easy to to grow as an organization. When people just simply sign up and learn about our work and share work. So if someone listening is excited about our cause and they consider themselves that advocate, or maybe they hadn’t, but now they realize, hey, I think I am an animal advocate. They should sign up and you can customize whether or not you want a weekly or monthly, you can customize the topics you’re interested in. So let’s say you’re not as interested in farmed animals. You’re interested in wildlife, for example. Our library has issues on wildlife. So we really want to help you get the information you need, the information you’re working on or the information you’re passionate about. So sign up for our newsletter as share our work on social online. Check us out and really dive in there to our library and our research. And obviously, if people want to go above and beyond, they can donate fund to what extent? Org slash donate every donation, big or small makes a huge difference and we’re very grateful. And for those maybe who can’t donate or want to go even further volunteer. We’re always on the lookout for volunteers, particularly our fabulous army of writers and editors that help make our library possible. So we hope you’ll reach out to us and help us out.

[00:19:19]

Thank you so much, Brooke. I learned so many things that I wasn’t aware of before. I hope your listening found is equally interesting as I am. We will link to the newsletter bound below. And thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us.

[00:19:35]

Absolutely. Thank you so much for the work you’re doing.