The Permaculture Association

[00:00:00]

Every day you and I get bombarded with negative news. Just like the body becomes what we eat, the mind becomes what we’re putting in. It is important to listen to stories that not only give you hope, but also inspire you and uplift you.

[00:00:17]

In this podcast, we’re interviewing experts who will break down the solutions to the world’s most pressing problems. And I promise you, if you listen to this podcast, you’ll not only stay informed but you will also feel more energy in your life. Welcome to Great.com Talks With.

[00:00:43]

Hey, if you want to contribute to protecting Platner, make sure you like and subscribe to the channel, because Great Dotcom is donating 100 percent of the profit to the most effective cost areas, like protecting the rainforest or funding climate change technology. The topic of today is how do you manage to live in harmony with nature? How do you manage to live in harmony with nature? And to understand more about that. We have invited Ryan Sanford Blackburn from Permaculture Association. I when I say welcome to the interview.

[00:01:18]

I’m very pleased to be here.

[00:01:21]

Ryan, if you would paint a picture of. The problem that you see in the world right now that you would like humanity to solve, what would you say the problem that you guys are working with?

[00:01:40]

So the one thing to say is that the problem is not clear, it’s not one simple thing that we can start to address. It’s a whole ball of entangled, complicated things that we can start to focus on and work with. If there was just one single word to describe the problem, I think I might choose disconnect with that disconnect with ourselves, with surrounding ecosystems, with the state of our climate chaos. So permaculture helps us address that. And one of the very first principles of permaculture is to observe. So I’m here in England, I live with my partner and my young son, who’s nearly two years old, we live in an old council house with nice sized gardens. We know our neighbors and a lot of lots of perennial vegetables and fruit. For the past six and a half years, I’ve worked as strategic communications coordinator for the Permaculture Association and working for the Permaculture Association. I’ve been so lucky to get a snippet into the world of many people in this country and elsewhere. They’re working with permaculture to be connected to their land, to their communities and start to make some just amazing positive changes.

[00:03:15]

Permaculture, could you say that that is a life education?

[00:03:22]

I’ve heard so many different phrases and definitions and perhaps those that are listening. I think permaculture, I think I know what it is. I’ve heard that somewhere, isn’t it this that they have others and there are many different takes on it. And that’s partly because it is so wide spreading and all encompassing. It’s a holistic design approach. So it looks at the whole. It’s based on three core ethics of Earthcare: people care fairshare. So imagine a healthy and peaceful world where we care for each other, the earth and future generations. We share resources wisely and continue to heal and regenerate communities and ecosystems. So is it life, education? I think life with a capital L. It’s about our global ecosphere and how life works, how nature works.

[00:04:23]

And you’re saying that it’s hard to define the problem. The closest that you could call it would be disconnect from ourselves. So I guess this would go back to all areas of life. Are you saying that in every choice that we’re making, we were either connected or disconnected?

[00:04:45]

Inevitably, yes.

[00:04:49]

Connection, I think, is a scale we can be slightly connected or we can be deeply connected. And it’s not necessarily the same take we think of being connected over a phone line or if it’s even like we are and many others have been this year in connection isn’t just, yes, we are connected or no, we aren’t. It’s how connected are we? And we can take more time to observe, to notice, to to see. What’s happening in ourselves, what is happening in the weather around us and other people and all kinds of different scenarios and systems, we talk about systems and permaculture. And notice and see the results. See what happens. We talk about feedback in permaculture, too, as well, so we can say once we’ve noticed and then we take action based on those observations, we can then see what effect that had.

[00:06:00]

And use that information to become more connected, become more in tune, more okay with how that system is working and to do it more effectively and efficiently, just like Mother Nature does herself.

[00:06:17]

So if I understand you correctly, then if you just observe nature and we see where nature is not feeling good, then we could just understand, OK, that’s where we need to put our focus. And so that will be one channel observing, observing the external. I’m assuming that you’re also talking about observing the internal kind of dialogue and world that’s going on, and that’s from where everything is starting. Right. And what would that look like, observing the internal I guess you talked about earth care, people care for shares. That’s right. And that is connected to an ethical kind of some kind of ethics.

[00:07:04]

Yeah, they’re what I thought of as the three core ethics of permaculture and. Everything comes back to that, because if we’re caring for the Earth, caring for ourselves and each other, and we’re making sure there’s enough to go around now and for future generations, then we have a happy, healthy planet. I haven’t found anyone that disagrees with that. And I haven’t found any other kind of reference system for ethics where you can lean back on it and be confident that they will hold that. OK, I’m going to go as a direction in my life. I’m going to care for the Earth and to care for myself and others. And I’m going to use resources wisely, make sure there’s enough to go around. So those three core things are permaculture, even if even if that’s all permaculture offered, I think that’s really strong offering this so, so much more to it as well. And not least of all, there’s a whole network of system thinkers who are creating healthy cultures and ecosystems that there’s many layers of permaculture. And the first layer, perhaps that baseline is the ethics. But then there’s all of the millions of people around the world that are learning about it, learning more about permaculture, learning more about how it applies in their lives and how it can help them. And then there’s connecting the dots between all of that, and that’s the really powerful stuff.

[00:08:40]

I’m curious about you personally, then, how long have you been to what’s within permaculture?

[00:08:48]

I’m 30 now.

[00:08:51]

I think I was perhaps twenty one when I first heard the phrase permaculture and that was when I was in my final year. University was involved in environmental and conservation projects. I don’t remember exactly how I first found out, but perhaps some late night reading or watching it, some gardening YouTube video from there, I started to see it more and more so in community projects that I was involved in, in the city of York starts to learn a little bit more about permaculture. And then one friend in particular, she had a fantastic bookcase of permaculture books and was very giving in, sharing her books and her knowledge. And so I got the book and an appetite increase and I learned more and more. And how I first applied it was through gardening. And I’ve seen that’s the case for a lot of people because there are some fantastic creative innovations in the permaculture community as to how they’re using permaculture design, really thriving gardens, the. Feed themselves and their family, but also full of nectar and pollen for insects and pollinators. It’s building soil. It’s a beautiful space to hang out and to share with others. So it’s no wonder the permaculture is applied in gardening because of what it offers. And again, I think that comes back to being connected and in tune. And if you’re spending time in your garden, you’re seeing what’s working, you see what doesn’t work, spending time in your local landscape and you see what’s working doesn’t work.

[00:10:39]

You can then apply that. And so I was applying that in community gardens in Europe. And we moved away from York and lived in several regions of the U.K. And each time I’d start a new garden or an allotment or be involved in a community project. I don’t want to keep it to myself. I don’t want to keep gardening to myself because it’s so much more powerful for me when I’m connected with others and I’m sharing permaculture, gardening, gardening, sharing meals, sharing ideas a lot about sharing for me. So where I am now, we’ve lived in this house for two and a half

years and the first thing we started on was the front garden because it? S facing, but also because that’s where we would get to know our neighbors. The more time we spent outside, the more we went, Oh, I knew right over there. I am next door. How are you doing? How are the boys? So we started to create the front garden and transformed it from just a double car parking space with bricks. And now it’s got soil building and there’s food growing there. There’s trees, there’s food for pollinators. It’s only two years old. So it’s not massive. But just getting there, you know, it’s great to look at the Mediterranean, Herbert, and see just alive with color and insects and smells and from the front garden then starts in the back.

[00:12:14]

We’ve got five hens and my two year old son loves playing with his hands and, you know, giving them a cuddle runs up to them. Some of them like it. Some of them don’t. Fruit trees, more fruit trees arriving next week, ready to be planted this year and then after we’ve been here for about a year, we sort of look for, you know, wideness, OK, homes, homes getting that feels good. Where else can we work? So look into the community. And that’s for me, where permaculture is really inspiring. When people work together at a local or a regional scale and apply that there and use the design thinking. So I’ve been working with a small group of people in the local town and we’ve established a local permaculture network. There’s over 100 people in an online social media group that share their learnings and are asking questions that they’re seeing. How are we getting on community projects? So sort of just starts to snowball. And you when you share that knowledge that that accumulates more knowledge. And I’ve learned so much from working groups as to how we work effectively in a group we use consent decision making, which is different to. Like hands up democracy, you know, we don’t take votes on what we should do next. So, for example, we’ve just cited a new shed on our allotment and what we didn’t do was say, OK, hands up, let’s vote.

[00:13:50]

He wants to put the shade in that corner. He wants to put his shit in that. And I think that’s how. Western society operates typically, you know, it’s quite binary if this party wins or this party wins, that’s very much at the front of our minds at the moment, as with. Waiting with bated breath, the result of the U.S. election this week. What we do in our small permaculture group is we use consent, decision making, and that’s like, well, will this action help us meet our mission? We have an agreed mission and it’s to regenerate soil and people by offering events and activities. Thought we would remove then any personal agendas and eco from that. So does anyone object doing this as opposed to. Voting for it, like, do we object on the basis that it won’t help us meet our mission? So a consent decision making, often part of social democracy, permaculture offers so many doors that they can get open. It’s like, oh, composting. I want to go through that door and see how composting works working in a group. I’m fed up of sitting around tables just talking all the time and never getting anything done and arguing. And we were wasteful. Now, what’s that consent decision making thing that might help me through nonviolent communication? I can open that door to so many things in different spheres, the gift economy, you know, using essential oils in so many different doors that permaculture.

[00:15:24]

Opens for you when you start to learn about and start connecting with other people that they like too, but it also acts as a magnet for the community because it’s holistic and it brings that all together. So it’s not just each of these unique tools in isolation. What happens when we follow them all on? What happens is we catch the earth. We care for ourselves and each other, and we’re making sure that there’s enough to go around. So ultimately, healthy, happy planet. That’s the way I see it. So, yeah, I use permaculture design thinking day to day. I write up for permaculture designs and share them on like significant sized projects, like a new forest garden that I’ve started this year. And there’s loads of other tools that I come across from fellow practitioners and people that I connect with that help me in day to day life. So. I definitely feel like my life is much richer from learning about permaculture all those years ago, and many thanks to my friend with a wonderful bookshelf and for sharing her covid. I’m glad that I opened that door and that I’ve learned so much from from being at the permaculture association and working with my colleagues and the members, because there are so many just like unique aha moments where you go, wow, you know, we’ve all watched the YouTube videos, we’ve listened to the podcast, we’ve just got. This is amazing.

[00:16:59]

How do they do that for me, so many of those amazing moments, because they learn about permaculture and they learn about observing and interacting and they learn like everything’s connected. So for me, I always try to look. Those varying levels and always starting with observation.

[00:17:32]

Thank you for sharing your personal story connected to how it was enriching your life. I see that you speak about nonviolent communication and just that concept of it, so long as it’s a huge topic to go into if you want to create good relationships. So I see. So you’re talking about how to really enrich relationships, enrich the nature around you and rich now. I read on the website that part of the order, the purpose would be to build a network of system thinkers. So that’s also what I’m grasping for, what you’re explaining, that you’re helping Schutter to become those system thinkers by sharing the knowledge and being very generous about how everyone is improving the collective thinking, I guess.

[00:18:33]

And I also thought it was interesting to hear the decision making, it really makes sense that it’s on the top of our minds to think in who wins rather than, hey, uh, what does a. What is the best thing for everyone?

[00:18:52]

So that explains why it would be so hard to just put a label on permaculture if you then would help people who actually feel inspired to, hey, I want to do more for nature, connect better with myself. Where would you recommend people to read upon after listening to you?

[00:19:17]

We have a network of people doing them, learning vermiculture, exploring how we can better care for. The earth nature ourselves, so join as a member, join the permaculture association, everyone is welcome. It’s 36 pounds and four individuals are household options. If you’re an educator or someone that shares permaculture and those three ethics with others is an option for that too. And the benefit of membership in my mind, is that. You gain that connection with others, so we have monthly courses and we have asexuals, we have annual convergence. We’ve just completed that in October this year. Is an annual event where we bring people in on network projects together. It’s a great chance to recharge your batteries. Often people, when they come to our events monthly at an event, they say, just if I needed that I needed that connection. I needed that recharge. Really inspiring. So please do join as a member. Thousands of people are members, they donate, they leave legacies. You can also find a new online course, foundations of permaculture, which has a self study or a tort option, so that will give you a good grounding in permaculture and designing for resilience. I think that the key things he could join as a member, donate, find our online course and get learning and apply it in your life.

[00:20:56]

Hmm, it’s more about investing in myself.

[00:21:00]

Joining us to remember thing, paying for the solution, creating becoming the solution.

[00:21:11]

I guess if we look at some of the problems in the world and corruption, the fossil fuel industry, that’s probably enough in itself, like they have lots of money behind them. We don’t have millions of pounds in the permaculture association. Not a year on year. We support Penagos to spread across Britain and support the international network while we’re at it, and we connect people who are using chemicals to design community projects, food systems that are feeding people good food, caring for healthy soil and wildlife. All of our staff are paid pretty much the same salary as CEOs ever so slightly more, but it’s still less than thirty thousand pound per annum. We know we’re not getting rich. Financially, we have other ones, we’re really efficient in our work and how we spend that money, so we make the most of it.

[00:22:15]

And.

[00:22:17]

That is that phrase designed by a local because, you know, one pound equals more than the one pound weight he’s reinvested back into that local community. I think with a permaculture community, when you invest in the permaculture community, the return on that investment is about caring for the earth, caring for people, making sure there’s enough to go around.

[00:22:44]

If you would end this interview by just sharing. You kind of spoke about it the whole interview, but I’m curious to hear you point, if there’s anything you want to highlight that you think is extra important for people, for more people to understand, what would that be?

[00:23:07]

And.

[00:23:09]

Take time and think 20/20 has shown us the importance of taking time.

[00:23:18]

To.

[00:23:20]

To reconnect, to reconnect with what we want to do. Also what the world needs. So I invite you to take that time to observe and interact with how your life is going, but also how life is with a capital while, how is nature going? And then have to do anything right away, and the longer that you. Look, the more that you see. The more prepared you will be to take that meaningful action. I think we have to act, so take the time to look at time. Take forever because we don’t have it. We really do need to act and make those positive changes on whatever scale we can, whether it’s

to improve our day to day lives for ourselves and our own health and well-being or for. The global week, fair as a whole and. We’ve created 52 climate actions, dotcom, that suggest areas where we could take meaningful action on all three of those scales personally in community and globally. So. I invite you to take some time.

END OF TRANSCRIPT