#11 – Podcasting – What we learned so far

Summary

Be ready to add some new assets in your stock of communication skills:

– Perfect metaphors

– Framing statements

– The dirty secret of ”balcony talk”

Transcript

[00:00:03] Oh, hi there. My name is a mill.

[00:00:06] And today, me and the founder of great Eric Berman are like two babies just having learned how to walk. But we’re not learning how to walk, really. We know that pretty well. What we are learning is how to host a podcast.

[00:00:25] And that is something we have been doing for about three months now. And if you listen to this episode, you can expect to become a person that now knows a lot more of what it’s like to become a of what it’s like to create a podcast. You will learn about frames. You will learn about stories. You will learn about metaphors. You will learn how to do teach back and how important that is.

[00:00:51] And you will learn about the seat in the concert hall. See you.

[00:01:04] All right. Good morning, Eric. All right. Good morning, my friend. And surprisingly nervous today, actually, which is where he has got this tingling feeling in my stomach saying, hey, Eric, you shouldn’t be nervous today.

[00:01:22] And I’m not sure why, but I am. But I’m I’m good. How are you, my friend? That is interesting. And I will return to that in a moment. I’m doing good. Like, I have no real big issues in my life. So I guess I’m fine. Anyway, the universe will listen to this podcast.

[00:01:43] By the way, I have a strong feeling the universe is listening.

[00:01:46] It’s not a good idea to wish for more problems, but it still cannot do well. This podcast is where you and I were discussing what we are learning together in life, in business, in other areas. And this episode is going to be about what we’re doing here, podcasting. And we have been doing this for all of 2019 now, which is about three months. And to be honest for me, it feels like we started yesterday, but we have been going for a while now. So our intention with this episode is to talk about what we have learned so far in doing podcasting. So what out where I would like to begin is why are we doing this at all? Eric, why did we even get started doing a podcast?

[00:02:42] So is think about this for a second. What do you think is the biggest challenge for any company starting?

[00:02:54] Yes. Think about it. Well, personally, I believe that the biggest problem for any company, starting in more or less any company out there is recruitment to find the perfect people for an organization. And I think that’s going to be an either bigger challenge for an organization like Great because we want to do so many things that aren’t really the norm out there.

[00:03:22] We want to be fully remote, but we also want to be very transparent in the things that we do and say. And we want to find very emotionally intelligent people who really resonate with our way of doing it.

[00:03:35] And personally, I believe that podcasting is a great way to reach people that are fascinated by the way we want to run our organization.

[00:03:46] And I think that it’s a very it’s a very cool way that someone can pick in and listen to a conversation that you and I have four hours or they could hear me on another podcast or who on another podcast talking about what we’re doing.

[00:03:59] And they can get so much bigger perspective of what something is from his listening and hour than they would be able to kind of read online or see in some YouTube clip or whatever. So it’s basically it’s a marketing channel to get our message out there and to find people who really recognize what we’re doing. That’s kind of the starting logic about these things.

[00:04:24] Mm hmm. So where did this idea come from? To do it this way.

[00:04:32] It kind of grew out of them. Well, it started with me being on a big podcast in Sweden, and there were so many people reaching out to me after that that have really resonated with things that I’d said that really had a lot of questions and a lot of ideas and suggestions. And some people wanted to work out and help with me and do things. And some of them have been an important part of where we are today. So I just realized, okay, there is something here that I have not grasped before at all. So that was kind of the first thing that came to mind, but I had prepared a lot for that part because I didn’t think that it would scale that well because it took too much time. But when I started having calls with you and when I spoke to another friend who did podcasting, we realized that by just having honest and real conversations that don’t need that much preparation, you could still get much, much value out there. So I think the combination of those two made me realize the potential. And it’s really fun. I think that’s a key part of it as well. But if it doesn’t work out, we’ve learned a lot that we’re having a lot of fun.

[00:05:42] We have learned a lot. And to me, there are two real purposes of these conversations. One is for us to be able to learn together to have this podcast to provide value for you out there listening. And the second one is to improve you as a podcast guest, because, you know, your intention is to go on a podcast tour this year and to market great in other channels. So what would you say is the main purpose for us doing this? Is it to for you to be on other podcasts or is it to get people in her?

[00:06:21] So there is a there is a short term and a long term perspective in this where the long term is a bit hard to evaluate. So from a short term perspective, by far the most important thing is for me to get much more comfortable in this kind of format and to learn more and be able to give the best possible performance or what you want to call it, the best possible conversations when I’m on a guest on another podcast, because if I’m on another podcast, there could be hundreds of thousands of people listening. And we still have a very small audience of hundreds or hundreds of people rather than hundreds of thousands. So that’s a big, big difference in terms of the short term plan. I believe that in the long term, this podcast can grow into something that communicates over years and years. And what we’re doing, we’re building a big reach for building a big audience. We’re learning a lot together. We’re improving a lot in finance was the previous episode. We did how to learn about that, how to do that. And it’s scale so much into us and it makes it a lot more fun for us to do. So it’s hard to say which one of this will play the most important role in the long term. But that’s kind of the two different angles. Where is it?

[00:07:39] Yeah, that makes sense since we’re just getting started as well. You right now we have an opportunity to reach big audiences in external podcasts now.

[00:07:50] And I think and really both where we where we started it can give us a running start in many ways.

[00:07:58] So you were feeling kind of nervous today. Why do you think that is? Because that is one of those things that have changed for me in the first episodes. I was insane and nervous. Now I feel a little bit, you know, juice to it.

[00:08:14] Yeah, I don’t have a good answer to it, actually. I still feel nervous. I had this tingling sensation in my my stomach.

[00:08:22] And I think a big part of it is that ironically, I’m more comfortable talking about uncomfortable topics.

[00:08:34] So if we’re talking about emotions or lovelife or suicides or whatever, I feel that I can step in, too. I wouldn’t say skill, but but an honesty and an in where I can touch upon emotions in a way where I’m very comfortable that it will be interesting to listen to. Today we’re touching upon a topic that is more factual, more things that we’ve learned maybe less interesting to most people or people who aren’t interested in podcasting. Well, I don’t feel that I have the same skillset in terms of grabbing their their attention or giving value in there. So I think that’s what scares me and that’s that it’s actually outside of where I believe I can create the most value. And that makes it scary for me because I identify myself with bringing value or adding perk, giving a purpose to things. So if I’m not performing in a way where I feel it gives a lot, then I step out of my my comfort zone in that.

[00:09:50] So ironically, this is harder to me. Mm hmm.

[00:09:54] Yeah, I can see that because then we are because one thing that I perceived that we have learned is that in order to be able to go for a long time doing this, it’s. Better lower pressures on us, and I think it also provides more values and better way if we come in here as students wanting to learn things and we learn and explore together compared to if we are just regurgitating what we already know and being teachers or experts.

[00:10:25] Yeah, I think that’s been one of one of the main insights that we’ve had so far is, is that difference? We’re not here to try and teach anyone anything. We’re here to learn and anyone is more than welcome to learn with us.

[00:10:39] So do you think coming from that place is what makes you uncomfortable here?

[00:10:47] Mm hmm. No, I liked coming from that place. I think it is.

[00:10:51] I realized this when I was on stage a couple of weeks ago and I was talking about a CEO held to ranking in Google, which is a topic that I know a lot about, that I’m passionate about. But somehow I find myself on the stage not being able to tell any emotional stories, really, but more talking about techniques and numbers. And I felt like, wow, this is so much harder to kind of creates.

[00:11:18] Grab attention with. And that scared me. And I think this is a similar situation.

[00:11:24] So it scares me not being able to to reach into those emotions in myself.

[00:11:34] Yadkin I’m excited Staab different flavors of the podcast regarding depending on which topic we are talking about. Yes, we’re sure. So I want to switch direction a bit here and because I think if you’re someone that is interesting interested in podcasting, I think there could be or maybe you want to start a podcast. I think that could be a lot of value for you here because we’ve been doing this for three months now. We have been trying, failing, and then we haven’t gotten feedback from our are spectators, spirits and frederich. And it’s been loving. It’s been harsh. And we have we have learned a lot. I think we have a hundred key concepts or so. So let’s dig into what are the main mistakes that we have been doing so far. What would you say is is the main miss? And it’s I’m not sure if it’s a mistake, but. Well, the main thing you were unaware of in the beginning that you don’t do now.

[00:12:40] So I think that my the main mistake from my end to start with was having what going into this with a thought of me being in the spotlight all the time. So taking too much space, I felt that I told long stories without really checking in with you or for that matter, with the audience. If that story makes a lot of sense or if it’s that interesting, I know one of the first episodes we did, I told the story that was 12 minutes long with with me only talking. So ending up in a place where I’m kind of stealing the spotlight in a way I know we intended me to be in the spotlight more than. And that was it. I can see that being something that I didn’t do, anything that was that made me aware of that. I do that in real life. I think that’s been one of my main takeaways from this, is that I can see errors that I’ve been doing in conversation in general, but I’ve seen them in the podcast because they become so apparent and I’m not passing the ball over in a conversation otherwise. And I’m gotten better at it. Thanks. So I say that’s my main takeaway has been that and that’s been one of the very big mistakes I did did early on, I would say.

[00:13:57] I think that is a great insight. And I think it’s a very important one. And for me, that’s a driver that I want to keep doing this, because one of the main things that we are practicing here is it’s conversation skills. And I realized in order for me to get a better podcast host, I need to get better. So with people in general. Every time I have a conversation, it’s my playing ground practice. We’re gonna be doing here. And that’s a great motivator. All of life is practice. And this is practice for all of life for sure.

[00:14:32] So what mistakes did you do early on?

[00:14:35] What did you learn from them? Well, as a host, I think one of the things that I made this podcast more interesting to listen to is, is the awareness that if you and I are if we are learning together, that becomes more interesting than if I’m interviewing you, just asking questions where you answer. And I think one of the reasons for that is that when we are trying to learn together, I’m actually taking a role where I want to see all your ideas. Really? I don’t really waterproof hair. Some challenging you more. I’m playing the devil’s advocate. I’m looking for is your idea bulletproof or can it be improved further? And I think that makes the conversation fresh. It’s not scripted. We’re really trying to learn something together.

[00:15:34] I completely agree. I think that’s been a big shift and it touches upon what what I said in the beginning with me taking too much space rather than us learning together and challenging and. Yeah. Second, see, early on you kind of had this idea.

[00:15:52] This is what we want to talk about today. And we were more or less. Yes, very friendly passing the ball. So the other person could say whatever it was planned to say. Yeah. And then it shifted over to, hey, is that really true or what? Why are you feeling nervous? That doesn’t make sense.

[00:16:09] That was not allowed to tell her. I’m feeling nervous. Are you, like, shaking, my friend?

[00:16:16] No. Yeah. In the beginning, I even tried to make you look good because I wanted to make great look good. And then there is no there’s no honesty in that. There’s no trust. So if I’m doing that, if I’m on your side, the audience can’t know that I’m on on their side.

[00:16:34] Like that. Can’t know that they’re in the audience. Should feel that you’re on their side. Yeah. And I need to address it now. But that is in their mind.

[00:16:45] And that’s a way for me to build trust. And I think trust is the second biggest thing I learned during this because I’ve been thinking a lot about hosting and conversations in general then. And I think in order to get an interesting conversation, when it becomes really interesting, it’s when it goes deep and I’m able to ask emotional and or difficult questions. And in order to do that, first thing needs to be a foundation of trust. So I’ve been thinking a lot about how can I build trust in conversations?

[00:17:23] Do you feel that you did mistakes with trust early on? It was a mistake them to make me look good. Or was it something else?

[00:17:31] Well, it’s it’s not mistakes that I did. But it’s more things. That I didn’t do so, for example, if you’re talking about something sensitive in order to go deeper instead of just asking that question, I can ask permission, for example. Is it okay if I keep digging here? So have the mindset of before I go deeper. Can I build more trust? And there are many nuances of that topic. But to have trust as a keyword in the front of my mind and knowing that that will over time create more interesting content.

[00:18:11] That idea has been important for me as a host and it gives.

[00:18:16] If there is a guest, then it gives them the opportunity to explore a topic or choose not to. Yeah, because especially when it’s the two of us, you can have a good idea of what you could ask me and what maybe you couldn’t. But if you’re in a conversation with a guest for the first time, then they don’t know that. And then it makes sense. Is it okay if I go this way rather than just going that way?

[00:18:42] Yeah. Exactly. And one other thing to build trust that I can do is to reveal my intentions. For example, if you’re talking about something I can say. I see that this is sensitive. And I know that a young person wanting to build his own company could learn a lot from this. Would it be OK if I keep kept asking questions here and yes, coming from that place show. So I show you my intentions. And I think that’s a very valuable skill in life in general. Yes. To have cannot build more trust with all my relationships.

[00:19:21] You know, I like that. And it’s something that done from these conversations is growing, growing into all other conversations we have outside of this as well. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, that’s interesting. You know, this this reminds me of the episode, where did I need to get better than the numbers? And when we spoke about what the episode did, when we spoke about gambling addiction and together we we explored that topic. And yeah, that that took me into this emotional space of like, well, I’ve been a part of suicide and haven’t explored that before. And I felt very safe through that process. I’m not sure if these were things that she did then, but I didn’t feel scared or pushed in to exploring that. I can’t imagine being in it in a different setting. It’s like, hey, you did this now. Would you go there now, exploit this and say how you feel about it? You know, that’s a very easy thing to end up with. But if it’s there, a gentle way is like, okay to want to explore this, could we get here? And we can you can get deeper into the conversation by ourselves.

[00:20:39] And I think that voice she just used kind of as a joke, go deeper, do this, do that. That has a feel a little bit shamed.

[00:20:48] Looking back at myself, because I kind of know that I have been coming from that energy.

[00:20:54] So another thing, if we fight, if I’m on a sensitive topic, is to use a very soft voice. I haven’t thought about that before. And in that episode, I didn’t share my intentions with you either. So even though I think you felt safe there because you know me, I think I could have created even more safety. And who knows what could have happened then maybe you would open up even more. And I think those are the most important places in a podcast. I think that is where the real value is.

[00:21:29] You’re touching upon something important. They’re both saying that since I knew you, I think that if I would have been in that conversation and it was on a different podcast and I didn’t know who would edit it and I didn’t know their intentions. No, I I pretty much know your intention without you stating it because we know each other. But I would have been very scared of going in that direction otherwise. So, yeah, that that podcast led to a couple of newspaper articles in Sweden and they reached out to me saying, hey, we want to interview because of this.

[00:22:06] Could you just quickly recap what we talked about and what happened?

[00:22:10] Ok. In the podcast we spoke about it in that episode, we spoke about how how many people’s lives I’ve been involved with affecting one way or another and getting them to start playing casino sports betting. So basically, how many people I’ve been involved with getting to gamble and. The risks or to chance whatever, it will not go with risk.

[00:22:37] And just to clarify, you’ve been running a large company that is doing marketing towards Casino before you sold it.

[00:22:45] Yeah. Good catch. Yes. So I’ve been running a big marketing company for gambling and a lot of people have started gambling as a side effect of that. And some of those people might have ended up in really bad situations because of gambling. And I can play a role in someone committed suicide. And we explored that topic together and it became very emotional.

[00:23:09] And then when when you explored it with me, I feel very safe because I knew that I felt her intention, even if it wasn’t stated. But when newspapers reached out to me after that interview, that scared me because I didn’t know what angle they were looking for. I didn’t feel safe exploring these things. I didn’t know what they would do with this material, where they wanted to go and.

[00:23:34] If they would have stated their intentions been more open with these kind of things, don’t just push questions up my face. I would definitely felt better. I propose still have been scared about it. It was a different thing.

[00:23:52] And that that I mean, that podcast led to these articles and they turned out to be very positive, but positive is a strong word, but they were not. And with a negative angle or scary twist or anything. And it it led to one of the things that I realized is a very important part of grade’s mission that media is actually talking about taking responsibility for gambling in a way.

[00:24:22] One of the reasons why I really want to stay in the gambling industry is that I want to have the opportunity of changing it from the inside. I think that if I’m stepping into another industry, I cannot change the way the gambling industry is is being run. But if I’m in the industry and talking about what I believe could happen from here, what I believe, a ton of responsibility could be taken then. Well, it’s proven that media picks up on it. And that could shift how the entire industry is is being dealt with.

[00:24:57] I think we should do a whole episode on the topic. So for now, let’s stay on. On podcasting and our mistakes and what we have learned so far. I have one mistake in mine. Go give me this. And this is kind of me as a host as well. And it’s two things that I humbly think added kind of well, yes. Moments ago. And that is to explain things that the audience doesn’t know. So in the beginning, we sort of assume that what is new, more things about us than they do. And we assumed the audience knew who we were. So now instead, I’m assuming that there’s there’s always someone new coming in, but has no idea who we even are. So to make sure to clarify things as a host, that one might sound obvious, but that didn’t happen in the beginning. So can chemicals with practice. And then we have a key concept that I think is important that is called balcony talk. And the reason it’s called balcony talk is imagined. You are at a after party, you’re at someone’s home and people are hanging out, drinking and out on the balcony. There are two people sitting and having a deep conversation and you go out on the balcony. It’s nice weather outside. And you see these people sit there to drink wine and try to become a part of this. But it doesn’t really work because they are talking about something very internal and you just end up leaving that balcony because you clearly not meant to be there. And you and I were guilty of doing some balcony talk where. And it it becomes Bach and talk when I’m talking with you about things that only you and me know about. Without explaining what it is exactly, without explaining, so I might be talking with you about something and then with the knowledge about stuff that I know about you. So maybe I know that you love creating things and then I just assume that everyone else knows that too, meaning everyone else would be excluded.

[00:27:11] Yeah. So this but what just happened now was, for example, knee then assuming that people knew that I had built this company and knew what I’d been working with before. Yeah. And you picked up on it and explained it.

[00:27:23] Yeah. So that would have been Balcom to talk to him. So someone can once again see from this is that you have learned this. I still haven’t.

[00:27:32] Well, it’s good to be too right. But it would be more challenging. One man podcast. Stick with what the other major thing.

[00:27:42] I think what’s interesting. Another concept that we take from this is watch what you have in your name to teach a noob.

[00:27:51] Explain like I’m five.

[00:27:53] You’re doing now as well. You’re picking up on this concept and you’re explaining it in a very simple way to give the opportunity for people to understand. And for me to understand. And we applied that when we spoke about, well, technical things on marketing or running a company like you find the most most simple way of explaining this and then giving the other person a chance to to teach it back as well. That’s something that we’ve done that worked out very well.

[00:28:25] Yeah, I’ll let you explain. Touchbacks at the moment. But I think the Teach a loop concept is interesting. And it’s not only about reaching all of the noobs after it’s too. I think even Einstein said if you can’t explain something simple, you don’t know it well enough. And what are some ways that we have learned to explain things simple?

[00:28:48] I’m thinking about two things putting on the spot.

[00:28:51] I’m gonna pass the ball back, Aria, because I know it’s not nice to put so that we have learned to. It’s not nice. I know two things. I know it feels silly now.

[00:28:59] Besides metaphors that we’re trying to use as often as we can and stories. Yeah, they work well for knew they were well for a child and they work well for everyone. It’s easy way to understand tricky concepts.

[00:29:15] Exactly. Yes. That makes a lot of sense and it makes it more fun. I think that’s the key part of this as well. One of the reasons why it works is managed to grab the attention. Yes.

[00:29:27] And again, this translates so well into real life. So a way to get good at this import cost is, of course, the world is your playground. So out there, when I’m talking to just anyone I meet to tried to use as many metaphors as possible.

[00:29:40] And it’s funny, I do that mainly in in Britain, because then I get the time to really think about it. And I think the more I do it in writing, the more I’ll do it off the keyboard as well. But it’s it’s fun and it’s easy. And I got the question the other day of my my fiancee, yohanna. She had a friend staying with us. Her name is chorused. Then she asked me, OK. Eric, what’s your way of being creative in life? Is that dancing? Because I dance a lot and I’m like, no, I’m not good enough to be creative in dancing.

[00:30:14] And then I went through some things and I realized, hey, one of the things I’m really doing to be creative is coming up with metaphors when I’m just writing people on Facebook. And it’s really fun.

[00:30:25] I like that. OK. So the concept of teach background then. Yes. Is. Well, when you have explained something to me now that it’s giving me the opportunity to repeat what you said or at least what I took away from it. So if I’m teaching back the concepts of doing easy things to learn. Well, to teach. I take with me what you said about metaphors and stories. That’s it. It becomes a fun way for the listener to to be part of it. And you paint the picture with with words, and it makes it a lot easier to understand both for a for a while, even for a child. It’s explained like a five year old, a noob or a beginner or whatever where we want to have for it.

[00:31:08] So, Eric, just teach back me. DiDio just talked about about stories and metaphors, and I think in this case it’s useful for the audience to be able to hear it again. And I also know that you have understood what I’m saying, and I realized it’s start asking for teach back. It’s such a vital, unimportant life skill. I think especially when there is you’re having a difficult conversation with someone, you know, maybe when you’re with your spouse and it’s all super intense and emotionally charged and you say something.

[00:31:45] I think asking for a teach back in that moment can be a great communication tool because it’s doing two things. First, you allow them to do what it does.

[00:32:04] You can see that they have understood you correctly. And if they have, that’s great. Then you have a higher level of understanding. If they haven’t, you have a chance to explain again what you actually meant. And it also makes them clearer on what is going on.

[00:32:24] Yeah, I can really see. Did I explain that? Explain that. I’ll keep building on it. That’s a new concept.

[00:32:31] The bill that explanations. Yeah. Yeah. So you could use that. The concept of teach back or can you teach this back to me? Or you could just simply ask. So what did you understand from this? What’s your perspective on what you just said? And I think that’s a very valuable thing to say. If you are with your your loved one and you’re talking about a tough conversation because especially when touching upon sensitive topics, at least for me, it gets very easy that I interpret that in a way that it probably wasn’t meant to be interpreted. And that will then color my my entire experience. What? Johanna, then my fiance is telling me. So if I feel attacked from the first sentences, that will effect the other sentences. And if I then get opportunity, this is what I took from this. I might be completely off and she will get a chance to like take me back to the right direction. Or maybe I’m not completely off and we can actually explore that together rather than me. You’re sitting with that feeling. Yeah. So I think it becomes it’s a very valuable tool in terms of teaching or in podcasting. And it’s also a very valuable tool in terms of conversation and especially on sensitive topics. Yeah.

[00:33:48] Also know that one is very useful. Yeah.

[00:33:54] Do you have something else?

[00:33:55] A mistake we have done or something we learned or one more thing that I like to touch upon layers is framing things. And this ties into building trust and the things you said before, but just framing things, saying things before, whatever is being said, which could be if we’re going into if I’m going to tell a dark story, for example, actually book starting with say, OK, this is going to be a dark story. So not hijacking someone in to that or if I’m talking about something like if I know it, it’s like I could say it is this way or I could say, I don’t know this, but my experience is that it is this way which changes a lot of of the of how I’m communicating it. I’m not claiming to be an expert. It goes back to this. Learning together like this is what I’ve learned so far. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Once again, it ties into building trust. If I’m saying it is this way, then it’s very likely that I’m wrong and I’m claiming that I’m an expert. But if I say I experienced it to be this way, that’s always true because I’ve said that’s my experience and no one can take that away from me.

[00:35:12] So you’re stating what is happening? My opinion is I’m assuming no, my projection on them is instead of speaking as if stuff was true. Yeah. I think that that one is very key in life as well because that builds trust.

[00:35:30] Yeah, I can see me failing to use it in life a lot. Very often claiming to be an expert in various topics and saying things with enough confidence that it sounds like I know what I’m talking about when I’m really not.

[00:35:44] Yeah. And that undermines when you actually know something too. So that’s true. So if if I know a fact like I say, the fact is or according to stand for to research this, that this is this. But that’s pretty much if you expresses things as fact fact more than that it undermines trustworthiness.

[00:36:10] Yeah. One good friend there could be as I said, according to Stanford’s research and more commonly probably according to this video I saw on YouTube, this is the theory. According to it, could she start to does this explanatory cool little videos on YouTube? This is how addiction works. Yeah. Then saying this is how addiction works. Because at the end of the day, we’re definitely not experience in action.

[00:36:36] Yeah, for sure. Those ones are real important. Now, one of the concepts we have learned is to discuss the downsides of things, and I think that may have made our podcast become much more interesting. We’re looking at what is the problem here? What is it that we don’t understand? And we’ve tried to dig into that. And I’m I must host almost taking a devil’s advocate role. So we kind of forgot to do it about our podcast thing. So let’s do it now. What is the downside of running a podcast that tells that around your particles?

[00:37:08] Well played, my friend.

[00:37:09] I think you probably did.

[00:37:11] Well, one of the downsides is that it needs to be done frequently to keep it up. Sometimes we don’t have the energy to do this and still we kind of promised to do this. It takes time from other things. It’s hard to see the purpose of a podcast compared to, yes, getting down there and getting things done. It’s how do we evaluate whether or not this is a success? If we as long as we enjoy this success in a sense. But the times when we don’t. How is it worth doing? We’re four people involved. We’re doing this and it takes up a lot of time and space from from other things we might say things that could be used against us. So like this video where we spoke about gambling addiction that we just mentioned and newspaper picked up on that, and they could have given that a twist. My gut feeling was that they will give this a twist that was not at all our intention. But by putting so much material out there, that’s something that can happen that we can get negative spins that go far out of our control.

[00:38:19] I haven’t experienced any major downsides. Personally, I think the upside has been has been really great. The downside, not that big. The biggest one is probably we could have done something else with the time, obviously, but it’s always like that.

[00:38:36] Yeah, it’s very hard to evaluate. Is this worth it or not? We’ve put a lot of hours into this already and it’s hard to see what we gain from it.

[00:38:45] Yeah, well. One thing that makes me less worried about that is like we explored now is that a lot of the things we have been learning in this podcast can be used in life all the time. It’s communication skills which scales into everything that is impossible to do any task where that won’t become useful.

[00:39:05] That’s true. It’s true.

[00:39:09] So what’s the downside of getting better at coming in communication? Is it? Yeah. If you have bad intentions, you become much better at manipulative manipulation. Yeah.

[00:39:19] Yeah. This is so it requires a lot more responsibility.

[00:39:25] Some of the things we’re talking about now I wouldn’t tell to anyone.

[00:39:30] I definitely know people, but I wouldn’t want to teach some of the skills we are doing now, especially the ones where you build trust and stuff.

[00:39:40] So one downside could be that people could see this episode and use whatever we said with the wrong intentions.

[00:39:47] Yeah, or bad ish wrenches for use it to manipulate people to get their way for sure. Yeah.

[00:39:55] Yeah, there are a few downsides, but most of it’s outside. So you listen. Start a podcast. That’s fun. So what have you struggled with? What’s been your biggest struggle doing this?

[00:40:06] And I want to out a recommendation here as well. While Rabbit, I think when we’re talking about communication, one thing that have improved mine and Eric’s communication skills a lot over the last year or so since we’re at it is a book.

[00:40:21] What is Choleric Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg.

[00:40:26] Yeah, that’s a very, very good book. And set us up ten out of ten when it comes to communication skills. So if you want to keep improving the skills after this episode, I’d say pick up that book.

[00:40:38] Yes. And if you’re not a reader, you can go to YouTube and just type in nonviolent communication. And the third hit or something, I think is a three hour workshop with the author of the book. That’s actually he’s really funny to just listen to it and explore it. And I’ve been watching that or a chap with with yohanna, my fiance day. And we never managed to watch it for more than 15 minutes at the time because then we end up in a conversation for an hour or two about something that annoys us or that we haven’t really managed to accomplish together or anything else that’s very valuable. It’s it’s basically going to couples counseling on YouTube.

[00:41:18] Mm hmm.

[00:41:21] I think we have covered most of our struggles, or at least for now. So to me, it’s becoming time to sort of wrap this episode up with what have we what has been the value so far? Do you think of podcasting for let’s talk a great and then for you personally.

[00:41:42] So let’s start with one struggle, because I think it’s important. It’s like I touched upon early on in this with feeling nervous and not feeling nervous and a pressure to perform. Because I think that’s been something I’ve struggled with and I believe we both struggled with it in various locations, and I think that’s the main hurdle for anyone who wants to start a podcast that is very scary to start doing things because you’re kind of claiming to have something to say. So I’d say that’s been my biggest struggle and. It gets easier over time. There is no magic formula to it. Anything goes for anything you do in public or I do in public. It’s like how to do that. That’s that is a struggle. That’s been a struggle. It’s not easy to start a podcast, but it’s not that hard either. Once you get going and you can get going in in secrecy, you can do what Amy did when we started doing things on Instagram that he actually set up a new account with zero followers just to post something on that. When we did a livestream to get into the habit of doing something. See, that’s that’s one big struggle that I have had and I think is that its value to shine some light on in terms of the biggest value that we’ve had so far, I’d say personally. What would we touch upon already has been by far the most important things conversation skills and learning to pass the ball back. So I’m doing that now. What’s been your biggest learning? Here’s the ball, my friend.

[00:43:21] Well, for grade. I said the biggest the biggest thing so far is that I think you have learned a lot when it comes to storytelling metaphors and how to include audience. I think that has been a big one, how to make the audience feel engaged and how to make what you say relevant. For the one listening. So I can know that you want to do 52 podcasts outside of great this year. So I feel a lot more confident that when you go out there now, you would be a great ambassador for our company. And you think that. I think the value of that is is huge because it’s not only going to be 52 podcasts this year. If you’re running these projects for 20 years, you’re gonna be able to use what we have learned and this little incubator. Incubator. Yes. For many years to come. And I think the value of that is it’s huge for me personally.

[00:44:20] I have learned a lot about hosting and I also have learned. Cannot want to have a clear idea of what it takes to become a good host. So no can of what kind of skills I want to develop for a long time to come in the future. And if you’re talking about value, the thing that I have enjoyed the most is that there’s a couple of people that have reached out to us and they have said something in the lines of, wow, I heard one episode and I really liked it. So now I watched all the episodes or watched a couple of episodes. And that makes me think, wow, we have just you and me talking have value to give for someone else to the extent that they’re willing to take up their time. Maybe the most valuable thing to listen to this.

[00:45:10] And that’s a huge compliment and that really gives me fuel to move forward.

[00:45:17] I agree it’s it’s a very it’s a powerful feeling to feel that when it’s a proof of concept that someone has actually listened to everything we do and justified that one person does, that means that there can be a lot of people that feel that way. If we just manage to reach out it.

[00:45:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:45:36] Like seeing what we’ve learned is by far the biggest accomplishment so far, the most valuable thing and how it scales into everything that we do, it’s ties in to what we’re learning. Conversation skills will be very beneficial for great. So basically everything that we do in that perspective is valuable for that.

[00:45:59] Most likely if we when we keep going with this podcast, we are going to have more episodes on this topic, which is how we have learned so far. Creating a podcast and hopefully in the future we’ll talk about how to scale up a podcast or how to reach more people or how to create the content in more interesting. And for now, I think we have touched upon what we wanted to touch upon in this episode. Is there something more you would like to add before I ask you to go the question, what have you learned today?

[00:46:37] No, I don’t think there is anything else I want to add. So I’ll go with. What have I learned today? Yes, yeah. I’ve learned that my my main feeling is still that I’m nervous about talking about these kind of topics. And that’s that interests me. And I’m not sure what kind of my key takeaways are from that more than the awareness of it. And that’s fine. And I feel totally comfortable sharing that. I’m nervous rather than anything else. And that’s fine, too. So I learned that I shouldn’t pour water over my table. That’s a bad thing.

[00:47:12] And this is usually what people doing to begin with. Here are the public’s picks. You see, I get nervous, drop dropping water. You get nervous the last the last minute, every day.

[00:47:23] It’s a scary minute. Something’s up. We learned various key concepts. I think those have been very important. So the balcony talk, as you mentioned, the risks of people feeling left out by. If we make assumption of what they know and don’t know. I think the most common, the one there which happens, the most common in conversations in general is when you say a name, this person did that. But most people don’t know that person or some people don’t know that person. That kind of story makes no sense anymore. So I think that’s very, very common. If we speak about the third person or maybe someone great and people will feel left out. I’m talking about teaching a new band. Teach BACS how how we can ask for like, okay, can you teach me this like I’m five because I really want to understand it.

[00:48:10] And then I can ask you, can you please teach me back what you just said? Can you repeat what you took with me from this? And that way I can see if you learned and you can see if you learned and we can connect on that. We’ve spoken about the importance of frames. How do I state something before I’m saying it? I don’t know this, but this is my feeling that this is important for all that you’re saying. This is a fact that some of my key takeaways in this episode. What’s what’s been your key takeaways?

[00:48:40] Awesome. So you summarized now a lot of.

[00:48:43] Important techniques to become a good conversationalist, and I think the main thing I realize in this conversation is that. It’s not only about getting good at podcasting, it’s about getting better at a lot in life in general. It’s hard. What we’re doing here is scaling into becoming better with other people and how to build trust. And if you can build trust with people, I think that gives you the opportunity to just have a better life in general. So it’s a life skill that we’re building here and that makes me eager to want to keep going. I like that. Yeah. All right. Let’s go. And for you listening, if you if you had been following us for a while or if you just chickening regardless. We would love your feedback on how can we get even better at podcasting. And if you have any price or if you think we should do something differently or not do it at all. We’d love to hear from you. So please send us an email to podcast at great dot com. Give us your comments or question. And we are looking forward to hearing from you. Now, Eric, I hope you have a marvelous Monday.

[00:49:58] This Monday, I will indeed have a marvelous Monday. That’s my plan.

[00:50:02] You can have a magical let’s go if you not. Thanks for saving the conversation. Magical nonsense. Please do try. All right. Cheers. Let’s go West. Have a good one. Goodbye.