#17 – Marketing a podcast in social media – Biggest mistake you can do

Summary

We used that ingredient, and we failed. Now we have a NEW approach. Based on key concept: Just begin

Links mentioned: Just begin video – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qXjm…

Gary Vee structure – https://www.garyvaynerchuk.com/the-ga…

Transcript

[00:00:01] All right, welcome to Becoming Great podcast, and today we’re gonna talk about marketing, how to market a podcast.

[00:00:13] We have found the secret ingredients that will guarantee that you will fail as marketing a podcast. We have tried this ingredients. We have indeed failed. And now we have a new approach to do this. And we will get into that in a very moment.

[00:00:33] But before let me introduce my fellow good buddy, Mr. Eric Bergman, the founder of Great Bar called hierarch.

[00:00:45] Hello, my good friend, it’s a pleasure to have you here. And knowing that you’re actually in my house right now, eating my food makes is all the more pleasurable.

[00:00:54] Yes. And my cost of business, my speciality is really food eating, preferrably someone else’s food.

[00:01:03] Surprisingly talented.

[00:01:05] Yes. And if this is the first time you are tuning into this podcast, this podcast is becoming great, where we learn together how to get better at business, how to get better life and how to build the organization. Great dot com. An organization that will. Make as much money as we can and then give it all away to the best charity projects that we can find.

[00:01:33] Now, Eric, if you were gonna take. A swim.

[00:01:40] You’re gonna go into the water and the water is freezing cold and you had to choose between either walking slowly but maybe a little to him. Pinky finger never. I’m going slowly. Or just plunge into the cold water. Which one would you go for?

[00:02:02] Well, I’m not brave enough to dip my toe in first because that means that I will choose not to. So I’m actually gonna use the wussy version with looks like the cool version, which is jumping straight into it.

[00:02:15] Mm hmm. All right. Nice. Because the reason I use this metaphor is that one of your key concepts that you live by is just begin when you created your own YouTube channel before you. This was the first video that you created. Just begin and we will link to that video below. So can you explain this concept and why it’s important?

[00:02:41] Ok, so let’s revisit my experience of the YouTube video. So I started a YouTube channel two years ago. I failed at it later on. But we’ll get maybe get to that. But regardless what what I did was that I just wanted to get started. And the challenge then is to make it as small step as possible. So I recorded the first video with this very computer, with the webcam, not thinking too much about what I said. And you said, let’s do this. Let’s get it published. Let’s see what happens. And that makes it so much easier to succeed in a sensor to get started. But it’s a very small step to do it instead of building 10 manuscripts in a fancy to do and everything else you can do around it. I believe that there’s this has been one of my one of the most important things in my life, taking me to the best and the worst places, because it also means that I’ve failed utterly frequently and end up in situations where maybe shouldn’t have been. But yeah, that’s the concept of just beginning.

[00:03:45] Right.

[00:03:46] And when the bar isn’t that high, that allows you to take action quicker and it doesn’t stop you from doing anything. It doesn’t paralyze you. And we’ve got to talk about this more latest episode. But the fact that you end up making a lot of mistakes, that is one of the main reasons how you can learn quickly. I see you as a quick learner and we will get into that in the beginning. But first, I want to explore. OK. Marketing a podcast in social media. Why? Why is this even interesting to you? Why did you want to learn this skill? Why did you want to fail at this idea?

[00:04:31] So first and foremost, I I see myself as pretty shitty in social media, and I like to be really good at this because I see it benefiting a company in lots of ways.

[00:04:47] And yeah, well, we can start with your perspective, this word. Where do you see social media could benefit the company in general? What can you do with social media?

[00:04:58] Do you mean as a marketing strategy and regardless marketing or anything else? Yeah. Marketing, for sure.

[00:05:08] I can see a huge benefit in recruitment. And. They’re getting the brand name out there to build relationships, to build collaborations with other companies.

[00:05:24] What do you see that I’m missing?

[00:05:28] I think you’re touching on the on the main parts, but I’d like to go a bit deeper into, for example, the recruitment aspect of this. So when I’ve been recruiting in the past with the Catina on previous companies, we’ve been either using just come on advertising is putting ads out there or we’ve been using headhunting agency is kind of. OK, let’s find that that’s a person. Let’s headhunt that person. And in none of these situations, the candidates have had a relationship to us before or know anything about before. But if let’s say we’ve been able to build a brand in social media and we’re communicating our messages, we’re doing podcasts. We’re adding videos. We’re doing these kind of things that hopefully candidates will build a relationship to us before we even know about them. So they will follow our voices. They will hear our message. They will hopefully resonate with what we’re saying. And maybe we don’t even need to put out an ad to get them to apply for a job. They’re actually so inspired of the things we do that they say, hey, I want that guy to come to my house and eat my food.

[00:06:38] So they reach out to us and getting this to work the other way, which means that we don’t need to spend money on any of those things.

[00:06:47] But it also means that the people coming to us are very likely to be a good cultural fit because they enjoy our message. They enjoy all these things. I don’t think that anyone listening to us talking about charity would come to start work for us because they want the highest possible paycheck. They would come because they want a big meaningful purpose.

[00:07:10] Right. And just to clarify, the reason I eat your food is because your fiancee is the best chef that I know. And in regards to what you’re saying, yes. So for recruitment, then, if there is a social media presence where our culture and our values are clearly on display, then you could have people that like that culture find you. And then all of a sudden you are recruiting people that already wants to work with you instead of people that you need to convince that they would want to work to use your influence. Power is much greater from the get-go.

[00:07:45] Yet both the influence, power and the ability to find the right people, so the fits based on you can. That’s my personal belief that the more people that have seen our message and the better we are at getting the message out there, the better it will be. So I see.

[00:08:05] Yeah, I think they I think this is. Oh, sorry.

[00:08:09] What do you say now? Yes, I was gonna keep talking. Then I heard her. It’s like, yeah, I’m gonna give the word out.

[00:08:15] I’m curious how much you guys. So Eric’s previous company is called Catina Media. And I’m curious how much money you actually spend if you want to talk about that on finding new people that would want to work for you. Because having a social media presence, don’t you start recruitment could actually save a lot of money, I guess.

[00:08:36] Yeah, for sure. So first and foremost, I think it will do a better job. So the main upside is not to save money because it’s expensive to do. Just podcasting like this takes both your and my time and it costs a lot of money. It’s just harder to trace it because you’re not paying someone else’s commission and stuff like that. Yeah, I think if social media is done well, it will be a very cost efficient take, but it’s hard to touch upon. The main thing will be quality. But yeah, I like the question of how much does it cost. It’s. Might be something that most people are not aware of, how expensive it is. Let’s let’s I’ll let you guess, because I don’t think you have any idea. Let’s say you want to recruit a developer, a technical developer, and this person costs sixty thousand euros a year. How much do you think you have to spend to headhunt someone like that?

[00:09:28] Cost a customer. Sixty thousand a year cost one person, just one person, I think. Then if you want to hire someone for 60000, you would have to pay two thousand if you go through a headhunter. OK. You mean that the salary would go up?

[00:09:44] Well, so imagine you hire someone for sixty thousand a year. You would have to pay fees. All in all, that would be twenty thousand to find this person.

[00:09:54] It’s actually over. I was gonna thought you were gonna go with it. Yeah. OK.

[00:09:58] So give or take two months salary is pretty common or three months salary and it depends on the role. So let’s say someone earning sixty thousand a year. That’s five thousand euros a month. So you probably pay around ten thousand euros in a commission to find a person like this. And this is also why a lot of companies have recruit to friend kind of things where if you get your friends to start working in this company, you’ll get a small little commission for it. Well, actually, a significant commission. I think we used to pay people in Catina 500 euros or maybe twelve thousand euros as a commission if they recruited their friend to the company. And that’s usually better than using head to head headhunting agency. Because, well, the friend knows the guy. So it’s more likely the cultural will be the same.

[00:10:50] Be a good person and it’s cheaper since it’s surprisingly expensive to pay headhunting, especially if you want to recruit. The more senior the role is, the more expensive it is right to hire a CEO. Could be like a hundred thousand euros in fees.

[00:11:05] Right. Yeah. I think my mom said when she. When she was hired. True. Or. To a headhunter that she had to pay 25 percent fee or something on her salary.

[00:11:17] But I guess the most expensive part here would be to hire someone that is a bad fit. And I guess that it’s easier to teach people the skills necessary to do the job than it’s easier to teach them to be a good fit with personality and culture.

[00:11:35] Yeah, I completely agree, definitely. And that brings us back to social media that you can actually build a relationship to someone before you get to have a much higher chance that the cultural fit matches.

[00:11:51] And you can do this at a scale, so if if if a thousand people listen to a podcast, then that’s more or less having a dialogue with a thousand people for an hour where they they get a chance to understand our culture and they can feel if they fit. We cannot feel the other person, but they can feel us. And that’s a big part of it. So, yeah. You asked me before, what’s the upside of social media? And I see recruitment for us as the by far biggest one. For many other companies, it would be sales may benefit because the more people that follow your message, the more people you can sell to. And that if you have a bikini brand and you have a million followers on Instagram that wants to buy your bikini, then the sales is gonna be a more important thing that then than actually recruitment. For us, we’re never gonna sell anything. B C, I don’t think we will. At least maybe we’ll at least for now, we’re not going to sell anything. So we will not be able to benefit from that. But instead we can use it for recruitment and attract those people and.

[00:13:02] Yeah, collaborations with various marketing companies.

[00:13:06] Cool. So we have the upsides for recruitment. It’s easier to find people that are already into our culture fit. It might be less expensive. And we also have the option if you want to sell something later on. Because if we have a social media presence, what else do you see? Why else do you want to learn? Marketing a podcast. And why would it be important for other people listening? That might not be doing it right now.

[00:13:37] So I think that building a personal brand is or a company brand. But let’s go with personal brand will benefit to life and so many, many different ways. Regardless, if you’re doing it at a large scale, which we are trying to do, or if you’re building it on a on a small scale around yourself because well, let’s say you want to apply for a job today. I believe most companies for most roles will shake out what you’re doing. And the more people you have that are inspired of your message. One way or another, the more likely it is that you can add value to a company. I’m guessing. I mean, if you can if you have a thousand people following your own Instagram, that says quite a bit of your social skills and your opportunity to influence other people and your understanding of the modern world. Yeah, it’s it’s not necessarily that means that you’re a good fit for a company, but it is something that adds value to your to your job. You’re a person. For any company, CIT makes you more attractive or in my case now, for example, I’d love to be on big podcasts. One of my goals is to become a guest on the Tim Ferris show.

[00:14:51] And if I have.

[00:14:54] A big following on my own, which I don’t, but if I would. It’s far more likely that he would see that as, okay, this is someone who actually brings value to the podcast because a lot of people already likes his message. If if one hundred thousand people liked this message, then it’s more likely that a million will. But if only a hundred people like my message is very unlikely that I will have something to say that benefits a million.

[00:15:17] Right. So by having people that follow you, you’re building your personal brand and you show that you have influence, influence, ability.

[00:15:26] Yeah, and I think that will benefit regardless if you’re looking for a job as a digital marketer or even an accountant.

[00:15:34] I think that’s something that benefits you, your race and your value in the global social hierarchy.

[00:15:42] Yeah, I mean, basically, if we take this to a schoolyard, if I can pull this one together, that there is one guy or a girl on the schoolyard and a lot of people are kind of shaping up around them, listening to what they hear to say.

[00:16:02] It’s very likely that that person has the biggest influence on the school and would be the best one for Iran. If you wanted to make a change in the school, it’s not about getting the teachers to want one thing, it’s about that person to want one thing because that person would be able to get the other kids around him to feel the same way. And if you have a big following in social media, it’s basically like basically like being the influential kid in school and be able to get everyone else to want to do that. Let’s say let’s say the school is about to determine where they’re going to go on a class trip. It’s very likely that whatever that person wants to go, all the other people are going to want to do as well. And it’s a similar thing if you want to buy a product, then whatever. If the most influential people have blue bikinis, then suddenly everyone else is going to want it as well. So you can see these people.

[00:16:55] My my friends, Sebastian spoke about this the other day and saw this as leverage. Like, how could you scale something? And he said that. Back in the days, let’s go back 100 plus years in time, the best way to scale something was through manpower, like one rich person had hundreds or thousands of people working for them.

[00:17:19] That was the only way to kind of get more things done. And it was a hassle because you need a lot of people. You probably needed to abuse a lot of people because they worked. I’m guessing cheaply a lot of places at least hundreds of years ago. And that became kind of the only way to scale. And then industrialism came and you could scale with machines. Once again, it’s an expensive it’s a hassle. You need big things. And you still needed a lot of people to be able to to get leverage and scale things. And later on, development came in, computers came. So that coding became the best way of scaling. Suddenly, eleven people could build Instagram and sell it for a billion dollars and you could actually scale a lot like this. And his theory was that the leverage or the scalability from today comes from personal branding and people knowing what you want to do. Now, Tim Ferriss or other big social media people can scale just by being themselves. They don’t need development. They don’t need a lot of money. They don’t need a lot of people. But just posting a blog post and being done. They could get an entire community to change their perspective. And this didn’t exist 200 years ago. No precedent could talk like this to you 20 years ago. But today it’s possible. People genuinely like what it is that you’re doing. They’re generally following you for you. They’re not following you because you’re the precedent. They’re following you because they want to.

[00:18:50] That’s a very interesting little history lesson. And it really makes me excited, too. I’m thinking, why don’t I build a personal brand? And maybe it’s worth the pain of the fear of putting myself out there.

[00:19:04] Yeah. And I’ve completely failed with this so far as well. So that’s what we’re digging into.

[00:19:09] All right. OK. We had to pass because my battery is running out. I’m sorry.

[00:19:20] All right. So let’s move on. We have concluded that there is a there are a lot of benefits for, I guess, most businesses to get into social media and to build a personal brand as well. So you’re going to learn this. How did you do it? What is your approach?

[00:19:41] Ok, so let’s back up a little. Let’s go back to two thousand and ten almost a decade. Then I was actually really good at social media. This was the time when Twitter kind of was big. Blogs were everywhere. And I found a good use of being on Twitter and blogs for myself and got a lot of business value out of it. Then Internet happened.

[00:20:06] Instagram came up. Snapchat came out. All of these different things came up. And I got old man.

[00:20:15] I started to feel like a really old dude.

[00:20:17] And especially when I met teenagers when I was out speaking and they had five Instagram accounts. I’m like, why?

[00:20:25] I don’t think you have one. You have intimate just now video. What is this? I’ve never felt so old as I did.

[00:20:36] Yeah, I did a speech and then I asked people to post an image on me on Instagram and give me feedback. And no one did.

[00:20:45] And there’s like, you can’t ask someone to do that. You can ask them for an Instagram story. I’m like, what’s the story?

[00:20:53] They don’t want to mess up their feed. Man was like, what’s their feed?

[00:20:58] So, yeah, basically I started to suck at social media from being someone at least I consider good. So my my curve of social media value went from very high to next to nothing. And then I felt like I need to figure this out again. So now we’re fast forwarding to like three, four months ago. The building beginning was here and I had been thinking about all these benefits of social media, but I had no idea how to utilize them or get anywhere with it.

[00:21:31] Beginning of 2019? That is yes.

[00:21:34] Beginning of 2019. Nice. So I saw myself having two options.

[00:21:40] I could either walk to the water, dip my little pinkie toe if the pink it’s always the worst and say it’s cold and I put myself down and write a strategy and how to prepare for this and what to learn.

[00:21:54] Starting with just Instagram stories or whatever. Or I could take some speed, run out, jump.

[00:22:04] And that’s what I did just to land. Realize that it’s fricking frozen.

[00:22:11] It hurts.

[00:22:13] Yeah. I’m saying this because Amul is a crazy guy who swims in ice cold water all winter. He’s so weird.

[00:22:20] I started this year. I had my first swim when the ice broke open in Sweden in February.

[00:22:26] And.

[00:22:28] It’s surprisingly refreshing and also make people happy because when it’s almost snowing outside and they’re walking back in my underwear. People like they’re smiling somewhere. It’s a weird thing to do that makes almost everyone happy. But I walk by.

[00:22:45] That’s a really valid point. I have never thought about that before. But yeah, that’s a huge sidetrack because you’re being crazy and I’m crazy amount. OK. So there is no ice on the water. I’m just getting straight into it.

[00:22:57] And with social media in this case, for me, that meant I started a Facebook group where I invited pretty much everyone I know who inspires me to discuss all kinds of problems and challenges of running businesses that went from 0 people to 400 people within a week and between a week. And now four months later, it’s still 400 people, meaning that I had a lot of fun the first week and then I couldn’t really get it going. So it was a success in one way and a big fake and another way I might. Now, let’s back up a little bit.

[00:23:32] Why? Why? Sure. Why? What’s the reason for creating a Facebook group?

[00:23:38] Ok, so first and foremost, I wanted to find ways of doing social media that, A, I enjoyed and had fun with it because I believe that if I have fun with, I will continue doing it. B I wanted to add value to other people that I want to come up with a way with this is beneficial for whoever sees what I’m doing. And C I wanted to add value to myself. Where can this benefit great or with the purpose that I have? So I start to think about work. What are the options for this? And I believe that a Facebook group is one of the most. Influential things you can control. Because this will do the ABC thing again. Eight Facebook has started to really love groups. The groups are growing like crazy and they get more and more favored by the algorithm showing up. B, if you have a Facebook group, it’s kind of like being the host of a party like let’s say you’re a teenager and you’re 17 years old and your parents are out of the house. Then suddenly you are the most popular kid in school, regardless if you’re a geek or not, because everyone wants a place to be. So you can kind of climb the. The coolness ladder with minimal effort, but by utilizing scale and scale in this house. In this case, it’s your parents house and it could also be having a Facebook group like everyone would know who you are and you would actually control the party and have a lot of influence without actually needing to do that much.

[00:25:13] So that’s how I see it, having a Facebook group that you can control what’s going on in there, but you don’t need to bring that much of the value because the main part of the value is all the people being in the group, talking to each other, doing all of these things so you can benefit from from that. It’s basically like creating a small Facebook in itself, but you kind of own and control it. So the value of Facebook is not the technical platform. It’s not Mark Zuckerberg himself. It’s not all the funny cat videos. It’s the fact that a billion people goes there regularly to talk to each other. That’s the product. And that’s what everyone wants. Everyone wants to talk to someone else. So what Facebook actually owns is not the value, but they attract the value and then they can make money from ads. So if you have a Facebook group, you’re kind of owning a piece of Facebook where you can add your own ads or your own content or whatever it is. But all the people are the actual value. So, yeah, let’s stop there. So that’s why I wanted to create a Facebook group, I wanted to understand how does a group work? How do I get people to interact with each other? How do I enjoy it and how do I have to value it? And. I learned a lot, but I couldn’t find an angle that I enjoyed it, and that meant that my engagement was down after one or two weeks and I barely interacted with it since.

[00:26:33] So love was the first thing I did. It was interesting. Second thing I did was that I started to post daily videos on Instagram. No, no. You are on LinkedIn and just basically putting the camera up and saying, this is my day. This is what I’ve been doing. And I posted those videos on Facebook as well.

[00:26:52] And that was scary because I put out really crappy things.

[00:26:58] Can I can I just interject with one thing here before I let continue about your Instagram experience. Now, you might be listening to this episode and think they talked in the beginning about some kind of secret ingredients that would guarantee failure. And if you pay very close attention, you might find hints of that secret ingredients in what have already happened. And you’re going to see more and more hints of it. Nice. Yes. I vote for and when you pick it up, I would like to get for you to give yourself a gold star for being a great student. All right. And we will we will let you know what it is in the end. All right.

[00:27:39] I love how you say gold star and then held your chest, because the first thing I saw then was this sheriff in a cowboy movie having a gold star on his show. So basically, if you find it, you’re a sheriff.

[00:27:50] Yes. And the more gold star you have, the more you will be on your way to becoming a great dictator. All right. So you wanted to build a Facebook group to be able to be the host of the party. And now you’re trying Instagram stories. What’s that like for you?

[00:28:08] You know, let’s back up live it. What did you take with you from the Facebook group thing? Did what I said may set make sense?

[00:28:15] Yeah, I make a lot of sense. Being the host of the party, things you can control, well, not control, but you can choose kind of what kind of content gets shoulder and then you have a lot of influence, ability. I mean, look at who is the. Who is the. Isn’t that what like Hugh Hefner? The Syrian is doing like big part of fixers have the most influential power, right. And this is a meaner version of that.

[00:28:47] Yeah, I actually stole this analogy from Gary V. So if you’re listening and want me, you’re one of those things. Go check out Garrity. We’ll link to him somewhere. Say he said that part analogy.

[00:29:00] And I just felt it made sense to add it to the Facebook group aspect. Yeah. Let’s move on. But good. So the next thing I tried was adding videos to LinkedIn. And this also came from V. He said it’s better to put out any content than no content. So don’t think too much about quality. Just do it. Because according to him and I think this makes a lot of sense. The biggest reason why people don’t put things on social media is that they think it has to be perfect. So they want to overdo it and that means they’re not doing it at all and everything is better than nothing. That’s his logic. And yeah, I buy into it. So I started doing videos on LinkedIn on a daily basis and they had fun with it for another week.

[00:29:49] And some of them got to make sure YouTube style videos or yeah.

[00:29:55] So my idea was let’s turn on the webcam and talk for maximum three minutes about what’s going on in my business life at the moment or in my thoughts at the moment. And. Yeah, the idea was I want to make this as simple as possible for me and hopefully add some value. Have some fun and get some value to be able to take those too.

[00:30:19] How how scared did it feel putting out stuff there that obviously you can’t have that high quality when you’re just improvising? Because I would not be comfortable with that.

[00:30:29] I would definitely not. But I was definitely comfortable. So going back to the water analogy. This was the feeling of jumping in. And while you’re still in the air, it’s pretty fun. And then you get to hear the splash. You’re still fine. And then one second later, you feel it’s freezing cold like, fuck. I actually click publish on this.

[00:30:53] Yeah, it’s it’s scary to put out something that you’re proud of. It’s horrifying to put on something that you’re actually ashamed of.

[00:31:02] Just spoke to. But you’re doing things that are uncomfortable.

[00:31:08] Mean you said there’s that. That’s like training a muscle. Yeah. And it was really uncomfortable the first time. A little bit less. The next time and after a week, it wasn’t uncomfortable anymore.

[00:31:19] And then that’s all the more reason that I do ice baths to train that muscle. This is social media.

[00:31:25] Housebut after a while I actually changed my profile picture on Facebook and LinkedIn. Linked in the mind of me in there in a tiny little prison cell asking for forgiveness for hijacking their feeds with crappy content. I was a lot of fun regardless.

[00:31:45] So what I took from this was. That’s a great way to interact with people, is to ask questions. So I asked questions in the field all the time and in the videos because it’s inspired people to answer. And this is something that we listen to. There is a YouTube channel called Chris Hmong Command, great of channel, where they spoke about how to interact with with people.

[00:32:11] And that people gets very inspired of being able to add value, of being able to help. So by asking questions, you give people the opportunity of helping, which is a great way of interacting and starting a conversation.

[00:32:25] So this worked out well in the sense that. People actually interacted, but it didn’t work out well because I didn’t enjoy it, so I stopped after. I don’t know, a week, two weeks again. And then the sons failed. I failed with finding something I enjoyed. So I went on from that. I did all kinds of things like this, and it’s gonna be two long stories to go into all of them in detail. But these are some of the things that I’ve tried and I tried livestreaming on on Instagram and I tried just livestreaming on Facebook.

[00:32:56] I’ve tried all kinds of things for two, three months and.

[00:33:02] Well, one of the main things that happens was a Facebook and LinkedIn’s algorithms started hating me because I pushed out too much crap content that people didn’t interact. So that’s a good thing to learn. My guess was that if you publish more things, everything will kind of be more visible in the algorithm. And because previously back in the old days, if Facebook added value to quality over quantity, the more you pushed out, the more all of your kind of content benefited from it. Today, not so much. So if you push out things that few people interact with, the next thing you push out will be seen to less people and you will have even the worst chance of getting interactions. And then it keeps going.

[00:33:46] All right. So does the algorithms favor. How many how many of the viewers are interacting with it or is it just how many views it gets? Yes, it favors greatly. Favors interactions. OK. So Helminths, you are stuck on a thing you want or you `where’s comments.

[00:34:04] Sheriffs’ likes all the interactions basically. Right. So the more of those things you get, the more good percentage wise. So if 100 people looks at the video and 50 like it, it will show up much more in all those hundred people’s feeds. But if 100 people watch it and get one like it, it will not show up in pretty much anyone’s feed. And it’s say it’s not it’s more it’s not just 50 times more chance that it will jump up in the feeds because of 50 people liking it compared to one. It’s actually more strong in each one of their feeds as well as it’s probably 500 times more like what happened with me. That was in the beginning. I had hundreds of likes on the things I did. And by the end I had 10. And that meant to me like, OK. Either I’m producing really horrible content, which partly was true. And secondly, it’s like, OK, the percentage of interactions is too small leading to me not getting visible anywhere leading to this intervening us.

[00:35:04] It would be really cool if you could see in Facebook how many people watched your post.

[00:35:09] You can see some things if you have a company account. Yeah, so you can see number of use and stuff like that, but not that much. And this is the same for Instagram that you get more data if you have a company account so you can have a company account for free. So a person can have it. You don’t need to pay for it. It’s just the setting thing. Yeah, regardless, I I learned all of these things and I ended up losing the passion for it. I didn’t really enjoy it. I. I failed at finding a fun angle.

[00:35:43] So. Right. So would you say this this whole thing was a failure or.

[00:35:51] Partly it was a failure filled failed with my my mission. I failed. So when it comes to finding something that they enjoy doing, it would do over time. Which was the main purpose of this.

[00:36:00] I failed. I wanted to find something that I can do for years on and really enjoy the process. I didn’t come close to that, but I managed to add value to a lot of people. I think a lot of people reached out and were happy with some of the things that I posted and I managed to add value to great.

[00:36:19] We found some really good candidates for a great leader role that came through these social media ventures. We got publicity and a bunch of newspapers for some of our podcast episodes and things we’re talking about. So we got a take too out of the three boxes. I managed to add value and I managed to get value. It did manage to enjoy it that much. I enjoyed everything for like a week and then I moved on. But I wanted to find something that I enjoyed over time. So I failed with that part and that’s the reason I haven’t been doing it for now a month or two.

[00:36:56] All right. So you started off 2019, real intense girl for two, three months, really diving into the cold water. Yes. Do anything you can to just stay in that water. And it was too cold. You had to get up.

[00:37:09] I love this analogy.

[00:37:12] But now moving forward, you and we plan to go back into the cold water. We’ve been at the fireplace. We’ve been heating up. We’ve been talking over the strategy and we’re going back. Right. Yeah. So what’s gonna be different this time?

[00:37:28] Yes. Let’s apply this to what we’ve been doing with podcasting and with podcasting and marketing of the podcast. We had two quite different approaches. So both of them we both we just jumped into the water. We didn’t plan too much and we didn’t get started that much. But the difference here was that we set very different goals. So one goal that was said to to run the podcast, we set two goals for the podcast on the early stage, I would say. One was that we wanted to enjoy the process. It was important for us to have fun and to was that we wanted to learn the things. We didn’t set any goals about producing one podcast every day.

[00:38:14] We didn’t set a goal of making it super high quality or very niche towards one audience where we thought that we can make the most influential power. We didn’t target anyone specific. We just said we want to enjoy this and we want to learn. So we said fairly small goals and attainable goals and we’re still going strong.

[00:38:34] We’re now Episode 18 or something like that. And we’ve been doing this every week. Not missing a single episode. And those are still the only targets that we’ve set. And the only targets that we’ve achieved.

[00:38:47] However, when it comes to marketing the podcast, we’ve failed completely, horribly bad and the goals we set to to market the podcast was to put out one video every day from the podcast, write descriptions to everything all the time. We wanted to actually do three different podcasts with the same material and we built this huge hill of things that we wanted to do. And I’d say after three steps up this hill, we kind of stopped. And since then, we’ve barely done any marketing whatsoever for for the podcast and we haven’t had a single strategy for it.

[00:39:28] And.

[00:39:30] Personally, I believe it was because we said a way to overwhelming goal and we didn’t even think about how is this fun?

[00:39:38] The hail of stuff became too steep.

[00:39:41] Yes, it becomes too steep. Yes. If it was a big hill, but it was a slower hill, maybe we would be able to walk it up. But but the steeper it is, the less fun it is. Yeah. So if the Hill would have been downhill, it would be a lot of fun and we would probably done everything anyway. Mm hmm. Huh. I love analogies. Yes. So what happened here was that we utterly failed. We did. We did nothing. We’ve posted two videos out of the 90 we plan to post or something over the first three months. And the other reason was that we simply didn’t do this in a way that we would enjoy it. There were too many things not happening here that made sense. And Frederick, our producer, who were the one who got the bigger load of this unpleasant tasks when we spoke about it, he did the analogy. Yeah. Parts of this is the really fun things when he’s doing the painting of Picasso. He gets to be creative.

[00:40:37] And then the things that might be more necessary to do was like painting a wall green. The only thing he got was the green bucket and just painting a wall and he took the joy out of it. And obviously it’s a lot harder than to get value from it because I don’t think many people enjoy painting walls green all the time. So there needs to be somewhere in between. How can it be fun as well as as valuable, though it’s hard to become Picasso. So we looked at this. It was there. Okay. This is the reason why we have failed to demarcate the podcast. We did a to Big Hill on too many things and was too steep, meaning not at all fun. So yeah. What did we do here?

[00:41:24] All right.

[00:41:25] So we we sat down and we said, all right, let’s let’s remove all the difficult things about meeting me, Eric and Spirit. The other day we said, all right, let’s do the podcast. And then we started to talk about a marketing strategy from Garvie, where you take the podcast, you create a lot of small content and distribute it anyway. And we realized that it doesn’t look that cool the way we do it now with our backgrounds. If you’re watching this same videos, we thought, you know, let’s get a green screen. And while we’re at it, if we take the main lessons from the podcast and create a separate video with its own script and then we can post that on YouTube, that would be really cool. You know what? We could also hire a freelancer to create graphics for the whole episodes.

[00:42:20] There.

[00:42:23] And that’s what happened in this meeting. So Spirit, who was also at the meeting, screamed, stop at me and Emma and said, what are you guys doing right now?

[00:42:33] Like, we don’t know are you may be building a big hill of things that are overpowering you.

[00:42:42] It’s can we take this to a smaller office? Yes.

[00:42:50] Or so we started to see what happens when me and Emily goes bonkers and not beginning, but either over planning. So, yeah.

[00:43:00] And I think what spert said nicely to appeal to are our megalomania inspired. You can make a big hill, but don’t make it that steep. All right. So you stoppered one thing.

[00:43:12] Yeah.

[00:43:12] So we started planning again, and five minutes later speared once again screamed stop to us because we had too many things and added into that.

[00:43:23] And we were then decided to make this as simple as we possibly can to start with. Take this small step. That means that we can just begin this week and not hiring a freelancer, not ordering a green screen, not getting all of those things working, but rather just put anything out there, cause once again, anything is better than nothing. And when building too much barriers, it’s very easy that it’s nothing. It’s better to walk up a small hill, the no hill at all.

[00:43:55] I agree, I agree. Yeah.

[00:43:58] Good, solid spirit, good spirit to love our spirit. Who’s a good boxer? So what we did, what did we end up deciding on doing? What’s step one?

[00:44:14] Create the podcast, extract the most beneficial segments out of the podcast, and then distribute that over different channels. But make it easier. Only use pictures.

[00:44:29] And instead, Spell did not listen in this Misrati. You had not listened in this meeting, did you?

[00:44:37] Okay, you got it. Just so what?

[00:44:42] What we decided to do was to just find the most important sections of a podcast. Just take exactly the recording we already had. So not adding any graphics, not adding anything. Shop out one 15 second video. That could be an Instagram story. And one part of the video, which is like two minutes. That could be one video for Instagram or Linked-In. No. No LinkedIn or Facebook. And publish this alone just as they are with a little text description. That’s the only thing we will start doing now. And we will not add anything more to that before we’ve done this over a couple of weeks and seen that this is working. We’re enjoying it and it’s happening. So we built a small little hill with intention of walking over that hill. Step one and then we’ll build a bigger hill for step 2 when we got the motivation and momentum up and running.

[00:45:37] Well-set. Well said. All right. So we’re calling towards the end of this and we will soon reveal the secret ingredients. So do you have anything to add before? Before we do?

[00:45:53] I think we’ve touched on it.

[00:45:55] On all the things can have a mystery drummer, verbal drum, drum roll. Of course you can. Then you can then release the big secret ingredient.

[00:46:05] So do do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. The secret ingredients that will guarantee failure when marketing a podcast is lacking.

[00:46:19] Having fun it is, if not enjoying the process, will and sure you guarantee you that you will fail to keep moving.

[00:46:31] Yeah. So if you inject boredom or overwhelming, then it will kill the project. And I’ve killed so many projects like this, then probably 10 already this year.

[00:46:44] So that’s something that needs to be in every planning meeting. I believe it needs to be the aspect of how do we enjoy this process, because we will come up with too many excuses not to do anything.

[00:46:56] And yeah, this brings the story to mind when pointing to Tina and I was working the most and I was a lot more burned out than I realized. And my mother was concerned about me. And she told me, like Eric, I’m very worried that you will that you will burn yourself out here just running straight into a wall. And I told her, like, Mom, it’s it’s no problem. I’m I’m having so much fun. I’m not gonna get burned out. And she said that’s exactly why I’m worried. Because if you didn’t have fun, you would find excuses to relax. But if you’re enjoying it, you will keep running until you fall.

[00:47:41] And yeah, that’s what happened. I ran until I fell and I probably wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t for fun.

[00:47:48] So fun can guarantee you actually succeeding or at least make it a lot more likely. But it can also be the reason why something fails harder because you are able to keep running rather than stay.

[00:48:03] Yeah, I’m Hobbiton. That suit on that note. You want to add something?

[00:48:06] Or should we just just I want to add something. And that is that if you enjoyed this podcast or if you have any suggestions for things you want to see more of.

[00:48:17] Or things you want to see less often. Or if you want to see us more as social media or less in social media, or if you picked up anything that we miss or if you just want to brag that you got the gold star. Please send us an e-mail to podcasts. Great. Thank you for today. Enjoy your day with me. Bye.