#33 – Choose your own salary?!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Becoming Great podcast.

[00:00:03] Today we’ve got to talk about salaries. We’re got to talk about Eric’s experience setting salaries in his previous companies. What kind of downsides and upsides of setting salaries in a traditional way. And most interestingly, we’re going to be talking about Eric’s unicorn and rainbow salary structure. I see Eric smiling now. He’s loving that night. So this would be in a perfect world. This would be how you set salaries.

[00:00:31] We’re going to talk about how far are we from that? Actually, each. And the green dot com. Are you ready?

[00:00:39] Let’s go to.

[00:00:55] Americans are doing well, thank you very much. I’m standing here jumping up and down a little bit, getting the energy going. S It’s a good time to be alive. How are you?

[00:01:06] All right. I’m feeling wonderful. And if this is your first time here, Becoming Great is a podcast. We are building great dot com. A charity that will give away 100 percent of its profits. A business that will give away 100 percent of its profits to charity. And we are also discussing everything we can do to grow as human beings.

[00:01:29] And so let’s get into salaries, Eric. Let’s do that. Let’s do it. So what has been your history with running businesses? Yes, from the summer.

[00:01:40] Yes. I’ve been running businesses, centers in school malls. And my previous business, Katrina Media, is now 400 ish employees and was built very big and very quickly and well, my experience with salaries. Well, OK, let’s start with this. So if you are you’re working in a company and let’s say you spend the average eight hours per day in the office, what what kind of relationships do you hope to have with your people in your working with?

[00:02:15] I would hope to have some kind of friendship relationship where I care about those people and I feel excited to see them and I feel happiness around them.

[00:02:24] Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, friendship is the most meaningful thing that you can have in a workplace. I would say. And when our company started to grow, we worked a lot and we were working really closely with each other. And the people in the team became my closest friends. I spent more time with them than I spend with my girlfriend and 364 days of the year. We were really close friends. And then one day of the year, we were not. We. We became enemies. And I mean, what they do think that was.

[00:03:06] Mm hmm. Sounds like some kind of negotiation and softening. You’re on different sides.

[00:03:11] Yeah. So this is one we’re going over the salary reviews, which we did once per year. And it’s such a weird thing to try and be best friends with people and then determining their worth. And it sounds like I’m putting a number on this is how much you are worth. And I’m putting a number on my other friend. And I’m saying he’s worth more than you. It’s a very weird position to be in to set that number, but it’s even weirder position to be in from the other side. Hearing that you are worth this much or hearing that someone else is worth more than you. And that’s basically what’s happening with with salaries. And I remember when and when we claim as well.

[00:03:57] But I’m worth this much to you, right? Yeah.

[00:04:00] Yeah. So you might sit there and you’re gonna negotiate. Why you’re worth more than someone else. It’s it’s just a very weird place to be. And when I’ve spoken to people about this from from the other perspective, like having to negotiate their salaries, I’ve heard stories about how they are sleepless at night. They don’t really know how to do this. They talk that they’re really concerned all the time. And from my perspective, I’m like, fuck, I need to determine someone’s worth here. I need to say why this? And that is fair. I might need to crush someone’s perspective on their own value. And it’s just a very weird place to be. And even if we want to be friends the other 364 days per year, that one day can ruin all of it. And that happened to me at some instances where I may and well, one one specific instance comes to mind where one guy started working for us, that he had worked for us for maybe six months and we went into a salary negotiation. We’re going to review that. And we just were completely apart from what was reasonable in my mind. And he felt that he should have this much salary, and I felt he should have significantly lower still an increase from where we were.

[00:05:24] And before that meeting, we spent several days a week. Yes. Hanging out after work. And after that, we spent nothing and became like this tension between us. And he ended up leaving the company just a couple of months after that. And I’ve barely spoken to him since. So this one day, even if it’s just one day per year, it taints everything and it’s really hard to get away from it. And it seems I don’t have the answer how to deal with this. For me, it’s just been so clear that this day is the most painful day for for everyone in the company. Regardless if you’re setting the salary or getting the salary set and there is almost no everyone leaving happy, and even if there are leaving happy, it seems like it doesn’t take long before they start re-evaluating and looking somewhere else and seeing OK. But I didn’t get that or didn’t get that. So regardless of that meeting, it’s going to be painful along the road. Yeah. So I’ve really been struggling with coming up with good, good way of doing this.

[00:06:34] So what options do you see them for doing things differently in the future?

[00:06:40] So if we start by touching upon how salaries are set in usual today in organizations, we’re looking at things like, OK, what’s the market price for this kind of role? How much is a developer in general? OK. Developers make 40000 years a year or whatever. And then you put different terms and like, OK, they’ve had this much experience that adds an extra 10 percent. They’re working in this area that adds an extra 10 percent. And these kinds of things are kind of putting a value on what is this person worth? And then you can put financial incentives on top of that, like bonuses. And if you do this, you get this much more money. And if you can do that, you can get this much more money. And basically all the research there is on this topic shows that financial incentives doesn’t work. For example, one of four creative tasks, that is, for example, one really interesting, Ted, talk about this that I don’t remember the name of. Unfortunately, it’s about linked to and solving. Yeah, we’ll find a link to it. Solving a creative task. And you take two groups of people and in front of them there is a box where their needles and a candle and a lighter. So everything is in this box. And then there’d be an actor. OK, you should get this candle to sit on the wall and being lit and you should get it stuck there.

[00:08:21] And one group gets if you can do this in less than an hour or whatever, you get 100 dollars. And the other group gets no financial incentives. And the trick here is that you need to take everything out of the box that the things are in. Press it to the wall with the needle. Put the candle in it. So you need to figure out that you can use the box, which is a trick thing. And whenever this test is being done over and over again, it shows that the people who don’t get financial incentives solve it quicker. So that giving someone financial incentives actually makes people more stupid because of pressure and I don’t know, caring more or whatever. And there is tons and tons of research on this. And it just makes me question that perspective on how to do it. If it just makes things worse. That day is just horrible. And it’s it’s a very challenging thing. And yet we live in a society where money is the most prevalent religion, where we’re being constantly being told that if we just make more money, we become happier. So on one side of the spectrum, it’s the research that shows that this doesn’t work. On the other side of the spectrum is, well, everyone wants more salary because that’s how you become happier according to our capitalism religion.

[00:09:41] But it would bring happiness to a certain point, right? Yeah, I can see it having diminishing returns after a certain number. But in the beginning, like you can get a better apartment, you can get some better food or travel, do things.

[00:10:02] So I don’t know the exact curve of this, but basically up to 5000 dollars a month or if it’s five and a half thousand dollars a month, something like that. Your life improves somewhere or another and there’s a lot of diminishing returns. So the first two thousand, it improves a lot because that means that you actually have food on the table and a place to live. And after that, it it improves a little bit. So it makes somewhat difference in quality of life. And still, it seems like according to the beaches I read and according to this TED talk, for example, that it doesn’t translate into be doing a better job. It doesn’t. In better business, shortly, as soon as people have their their life quality and their children are safe, they’re eating well, they are living in good neighborhoods. As soon as those boxes are ticked, then money doesn’t really make a bigger impact. And then it matters a lot. If you’re living in London and needs to get those take. Obviously, you need a higher salary than if you live in some small city on the countryside. So this is this is basically the things I’ve been trying to wrap my head around for the first very painful experience, both for the team and for me and all the research that I’ve taken that I’ve seen saying like, OK, this doesn’t really work. How would you tackle this situation? What what do you see?

[00:11:31] So if you look at the candle and box situation, those that are solving it quicker, they’re coming from a place of playfulness by doing it, doing it because it’s fun. So then the question is, so I guess centers would work really well then if you want to make someone do something that isn’t for the fun. Yeah.

[00:11:56] Yeah. There are similar studies showing that if you’re if your job is just to move boxes, lift one box from one place to another and then start over. Then people are more willing to do it if they get paid. Right.

[00:12:09] So I guess the challenge for greater than is can we create jobs that are creative and fun and are meaningful?

[00:12:19] And at that point, the pay would play a smaller role.

[00:12:26] Yeah. So that’s one of the challenges we’re facing here. How do we make that happen? Because obviously all the tasks in a company. It’s it’s impossible to have all tasks being yay, so fun. Let’s do this. But I think it’s possible to have all tasks being meaningful. I think it’s possible. I mean, it can. To me, it can feel very meaningful to clean the kitchen. Yes. Because I know it gets clean. So I don’t hate the process. I don’t enjoy cleaning the kitchen, but I enjoy the meaning of it. So I think that that’s something that can be done in the entire organization, which for me is one of the reasons why great is gonna give away a hundred percent of the profits that everything we’re doing is trying to do this right.

[00:13:15] I had a lunch yesterday, actually, and it was with an old friend.

[00:13:20] And so he’s working in sales and has worked himself up and he’s been headhunted by this company.

[00:13:25] And now he has a job that is paying really well, like over ten thousand dollars a month.

[00:13:32] And he was reaching out to me because he saw you on YouTube and thought about I would like to be involved with this company, even if it’s much, much lower salary, because I didn’t find what I was looking for in the job that I have now.

[00:13:46] So I think there are people that are interested in that structure.

[00:13:51] Yeah, I believe so, too. And to give some context for you listening. The way we are doing it in great right now is that I personally take zero salary. Most of the team has thirty six thousand euros a year in salary and one person, Joakim, who is the manager of things, has twice that. So he has seventy two thousand years salary and it’s also voluntary to lower the salaries to kind of donate that money back. And because we’re going to give everything away anyway. So what we’re doing right now is that if I may, for example, have chosen to lower his salary by 10 percent, then we’re donating that money to the rainforest or rainforest projects at the moment. And me, I’m going in and doubling that to make sure that we make an extra impact. So from e-mails, thirty six thousand a year, that means that there’s three thousand six hundred euros being donated plus three thousand six hundred from mine. And we’ve kind of decided on this salary together. And it’s kind of been like sucking on the finger, putting it up in the air and see what what feels right. And we don’t have any real data about this. We don’t have a plan for how this are gonna develop. And it’s raises questions within the organization. When is that going to matter? And to be honest, I don’t have a clear answer to any of this, but this has been the best thing that we come across so far. How do you feel about this structure? Herman?

[00:15:27] I think right now I think that it works for now, but that is actually after you and I had a conversation yesterday and planned this episode where I get to hear about your unicorn, a rainbow center of stripes structure. So I could kind of see the vision that you have. So I’m really curious to get in and talk about that vision. But before I do, we actually got into something here that is a bit unique as well, and that is public salary. You just told in a podcast what everyone is making. So have you experienced that in previous companies? And why do you want to do that now?

[00:16:06] I’ve only read about companies doing this. I haven’t experienced it myself. So I don’t know what the long term problems with will be for me. And this is a whole other episode and it’s about transparency. And I and I personally believe that secrets just makes things worse and that all more or less all conflicts comes from limited information. I don’t know why he’s feeling this way, why he’s doing this way or what he’s being paid. And if we can limit secrets, then I think that we will have a much more harmonious environment and it will be much more fair for everyone involved. For example, I’ve previously given someone a higher salary than someone else just because of this person’s negotiation skills. So the ones who got the higher salary was better at talking for themselves. There wasn’t better the job, and I wouldn’t be able to do that if I had to show both salaries to people. So it has enabled me to take shortcuts that I don’t want to do. But when someone is dangling that little town me in front of me. Hey, Eric, do you want to make some money? I haven’t been able to resist that urge. And you want to buy the convenient hire, maybe? Yeah, I want to I want to take a short cut here. And if salaries are transparent, I can’t do that. But not any of our managers in the future who I’m not controlling, because maybe I can figure out myself not to do it. But if we’re a hundred people in the future, there is a lot of other managers and there will be a lot of that temptation that I have fallen for in the past and that I probably would fall for today as well, since kind of really limiting that because you have experience of the downsides of this and you have a clear idea for your vision of the salary structure.

[00:17:51] But when you’re not here, other managers, other people are going to see insiders. If this company is going.

[00:18:00] And that’s the capitalistic approach is to try and keep salaries costs as low as possible at all times. And if that means being unfair, then I believe that’s what’s going to happen. I mean, that’s what I did. Why wouldn’t anyone else do it? If I made the same mistake myself, since it’s a way of eliminating that? Well, I my hope is to eliminate that.

[00:18:21] So wouldn’t this inflate the payment structure? This source also charity. So the Mountain Dew basis to get something for this money can be doing it?

[00:18:32] Yeah, probably. So let’s go to this unit construction. We can tie that back into inflating if we want to talk about it. Yeah, I like unicorns and rainbows. So the name unicorns and rainbows comes from that. This is very tricky to accomplish, and in a perfect world it would be easy. So in the world with with unicorns and rainbows we would solve with 30 humans with emotions. No, no, no anger or so we can sum this up. If this was a world without greed, jealousy and yeah, those kinds of emotions, this would be simple. Unfortunately, we don’t live in that world. But the unicorns do. I believe so. So the idea with this is to have a need based salary structure. So when a regular company, a capitalistic company, evaluates how much is this person worth given of how much money do they bring into the company one way or another? That’s like the original structure. How much how hard is it to replace this person and how much does this person bring into the company? That’s how capitalistic companies hire people. In my experience and I want to turn that around and saying, OK, how much does this person need to be able to have a meaningful day to day job and how much do they need to live their life? So if I’m giving you a dream task, let’s say I spoke to another friend yesterday and her dream job is to run a dog shelter.

[00:20:03] And for her, that’s more like a very meaningful thing that she were want to do and to be able to do that. She needs to be enabled. She needs still need to be able to pay for her rent and pay for her food and pay for whatever it is he wants to do. But other than that, she just wants to do this because it’s so meaningful for her. And if we can create that kind of environment within grates where people just feel it’s so meaningful, then it turns it around because you can’t say how much she’s worth in money for a dog shelters, but she never gonna bring any in any money. She is going to take care of dogs or the world or whatever you want to call it. And that’s the perspective here. Like, how can we enable things? So what does e-mail need to live the life he wants to live? What does the other people in the team need?

[00:20:49] So to me, since this is.

[00:20:55] I guess this idea raises a lot of different questions, depending on which lens you’re looking through and I think from most dresses doesn’t seem pretty insane. And one voice was obscured. This will get unfair in one way or another. So let’s let’s get some examples in there and we can see how you think we could solve these examples. So right now, there’s some other employee in whose company, conspirators and human eye are making the same money. Thirty six thousand a year. Now I have more expenses than Spirit has experiences sharing back with his girlfriend. He’s living in a small apartment. I think I spend a little bit more on food. I have a car.

[00:21:39] Spirit hasn’t doesn’t have a car is his house. It has lower cost to me. So would that mean. How would that work with during a cornerstone of strategy? Would we have to meet halfway in our expenses or would I get more money or how would that work?

[00:21:57] So part of this that we didn’t touch upon yet is that in this scenario, people set their own salaries since based on how much does Emma think that he needs and then he sets the salary to that. So instead of me evaluating how much is Amy worth or the team evaluating how much is Emily worth? Eamon says, This is what I need to be enabled and be able to live my life in the way I want and still contribute in a very meaningful way. Same thing would go for the spirit here then.

[00:22:27] So would someone then. So would that be a request to what I say? This is what I’m making now.

[00:22:33] In a perfect world you would just say it and everyone would agree. And this is where it gets tricky because where and it gets unfair. And for example, if you say I want a hundred thousand dollars a month and I want to be in a situation where we’re just a yes. And I wouldn’t. So we’re not there, which we’re gonna touch your butt. But yes, basically, I want to build an organization or I want us to have an organization. Where would you would never say I want hundred thousand dollars a month because then you wouldn’t be be in this for the meaning. You would be in this for the money. I don’t want the culture where that happens. So in the unicorn world, you would say, yeah, I need this much and maybe that’s three thousand a month or four thousand a month or whatever it is. And then we would just say yes. So the same perspective here would be for Spirit, as you mentioned. If he has a lot of lower costs, if he doesn’t need this much money, maybe he wants more saving, maybe he’s getting a kidney, maybe something else happens. It’s I would still like it to be up to him to determine this. And maybe he says, okay, I only need 30 and then we’re paying 30. Maybe he says I want 50 and then we’re paying him 50. So I want the unicorn world. Everyone would say this is how much I need. And that should include savings. That should include some other stuff. And they. Yeah. In the world without greed and jealousy and with very meaningful and formal tasks. The answer will be the requests or whatever we want to call it would be a fair number. And I wouldn’t have to evaluate someone. No manager would have to be evaluated someone, no one would have to be evaluated on their worth. They would just say, this is what I need to be able to live a good life. And the team would accept that. The team would trust that in the world of unicorns.

[00:24:27] So let’s look at the employees perspective, because in the unicorn world, I would just say this is what I want. And I would I wouldn’t even feel anything. I would just be on the rainbow doing my unicorn thing. Yeah, but down here and dirty, smelly room of humans. If I were to say then, OK, I actually need this much money. And that is more than spirit. Even though we’re kind of the same age. There’s no real. I think it’s difficult for me at least to find a way to make that request without feeling shame.

[00:24:59] I think it’s really, really hard in in the regular world of humans.

[00:25:07] I think it’s borderline impossible. And I think the solution for that is to over a long period of time, build a culture of unicorns and rainbows where we as a team really support each other, where we create an environment that is so safe and where things feel so meaningful that people the people in the team wouldn’t say this and that people would dare to step up and say this. And what do you mean by this? So saying that I want this much salary, that that’s not a concern, that people in the team would feel safe to say that and that would go for setting their salaries, but that would also go for. OK, I have this other. Job opportunity right now, I’m actually thinking about it. Where in my previous businesses, people will just have left or they would been thinking about it in silence and wouldn’t say anything until they actually were there. And if we create a safe enough environment, I’m hoping that people will just say that from day one. I’m thinking about this right now, which is a similar thing, that out of shame, out of guilt. Most employees that I’ve been in contact with would not have said that on the beginning of this shame and guilt culture or secrecy culture is if we can get around that we’re in everything we do, then I think it will be easy, quote unquote, with the salaries as well. But it still can be very hard.

[00:26:38] So I’m curious to know how culture would be created.

[00:26:43] Because right now we are OK, so we’re not quiet down the dirt with the rest of the humans was maybe just a couple of feet above the air going towards a unicorn.

[00:26:54] I you say that we are better than everyone else here.

[00:26:57] Well, at least we jumped. Yeah, but how do you go there? Because right now we talked about this yesterday as well. But right now in my head, we don’t really have any of setting salaries at all. We just have the same salary almost.

[00:27:15] We had some different perspective on it. But so it’s I think it’s based at this point. We’ve done exams. Yeah.

[00:27:23] So I think the way to get there is a addressing it like we’re doing right now with the intention. And like this is why we want to get there, for example, showing all the salaries. There it is right now, showing what is fair or not fair. And we could argue the salary of Joe. I can compare the salary of others. And whether or not that’s fair, it’s definitely not fair because he doesn’t have bigger needs. So we’re not there in that perspective. He is still being evaluated on his achievements rather than his needs. So we’re not in unicorn land. And I think leading by example. We had a similar conversation about vacations. So at the moment in grades, everyone has unlimited vacation they can take whenever they want. And research shows that when you do that, people take less salaries. So, for example, Netflix has this. If people take less salary and less vacations. Yes, sir. Thank you. Less vacations because of shame and guilt. They want to prove themselves. So I’m not taking any vacation. I’m not taking vacation.

[00:28:29] And that was my mom’s reaction when I told her about the. She said, well, then I would never take any vacation. And that would be horrible.

[00:28:37] Yeah. So I think that’s the way it would be if you were if we weren’t very careful about the culture and things around it. So, for example, when it comes to the vacation, what I’m doing, I’m the main role model in this company. I’m the father or whatever you want to call it. And people do what I do is my belief. So I’ve been very, very open with like, OK, guys, I’m going on a dance trip right now. My phone is in flight mode. I’m just gonna shake it for a week. And I’m not going to show up and into any meetings because dancing is more important.

[00:29:07] And do you think it’s obvious to the team then that you’re doing that to encourage other people to do the same?

[00:29:15] In my head, it’s obvious. When you say the question, I realize it’s probably not. So it can definitely be stated more clearly. So that could be I’m doing this now and I encourage you to do the same. I could probably add that sentence, which I haven’t meant to be helpful. Thank you. Yeah, some I’m leading by example thinking that people would do the same thing. But I’m not clearly stating that I’m leading by example, encouraging others to do the same thing, which for some would be a better way.

[00:29:42] So you can’t lead by example in the sellers question because you’re not taking a salary. But let’s say I want to do it. Should I? Yes, said I think my need are. And then I show some kind of budget to the team, and therefore I want this salary. Or should I just go with a number? I’m not even an expert myself.

[00:30:00] It’s a good question.

[00:30:03] So something I think that would be good to do in a situation like this is to have a research showing like what are the things that makes people happy and kind of creating a picture that this is what research says you need to be happy. And that could be you need to be able to buy whatever food you want. You don’t need to go to restaurant everyday, but you need to be able to buy whatever ingredients you want. You need to live in a safe neighborhood in this in that big flat or house or whatever you might need a car you might need. I don’t know what you need, but let’s say and kind of have that as a guideline so everyone can say this is this is the guideline that we need guideline.

[00:30:46] You need those basic needs and then some percent extra for. Yeah.

[00:30:51] And then having that as a as a guideline. And then it’s up to everyone if they want to go by that guideline. But not just leaving people completely without knowledge.

[00:31:03] I think really I think a guideline would help because you’ve been thinking about the sentence question for I guess, many years now. Yeah, we’re still going back and forth, not really knowing what the good way to do it is. And if someone comes into this communism, we knew we’d see or experience the needs to be, I think, clear guidelines. Otherwise, we would. I suspect that many people would feel this shame and confusion. A lot to stay in the system is so different.

[00:31:33] Yeah. And it takes a long time for someone to embrace the culture, see if we managed to build that culture. Someone has just been in for two weeks and I’m going to set their own salaries. Not gonna be part of that culture knowing that yet.

[00:31:45] So I think this is a tricky one because I think many companies that you weren’t coming to us and your employees today. One important thing to do is to prove yourself right. You want to show that you’re worth your salary.

[00:31:57] You want to show that I’m probably worth an even higher salary. And that’s kind of how you advance right on your salary becomes a proof of that. Yeah. So how would it work then when you’re coming in here and you don’t look at achievements? That makes sense. So how would you produce something in a company?

[00:32:20] It’s gonna be really hard. And that’s one of the challenges that we will on when we hire people, we will definitely look on achievements because we need to know that the person can do this or that. So we will definitely evaluate what have people done in the past to see if they can fit in. And we’re always going to need to evaluate. Are there doing their job or are they fitting into the culture? What kind of tasks are you performing? Because we’re always going to be devalued. Is this someone who adds value to the team or do they actually destroy what we’re doing one way or another? So it’s still going to be a team where everyone needs to make an effort to fit in, but it doesn’t need to be tied to the salary. So achievements would still be tied to will they keep the job or not? Because there’s I don’t think there is a way around that. If you come in and you perform several tasks. Zero times a year, you don’t you’re not doing anything. You’re not going to be the benefit of the culture unless you’re the most happy guy lifting everyone else up, doing a lot of other things. So I don’t think there is a way about taking achievements, waiting in front of keeping the role. But when I don’t, I think there is a way not to evaluating people’s worth on the talent, on the sake that they have a task or not and do the same thing, go for morality.

[00:33:42] And then when a company should get X percent increase in salary for each year, you’ve been in the company.

[00:33:48] You mean if we would have a loyalty bonus on top of things as well, but not financially? Because I don’t believe in that in general. I don’t know if there is another way of doing. And that’s also the thing. If you’re if you want to get someone to do something they don’t want to do. You need to give them bigger and bigger incentives. If there is something someone loves to do, there isn’t really like you. I’ll pay you more to do it for a longer time. And we can’t give you more vacation days because you take your vacation. If you feel that you need it. So if you can’t give the incentive of of financial means, you can’t give vacation days. I personally think that titles is a really shitty way of giving credit. So you can’t really give credit. There isn’t really a way to incentivize with would like giving people things. I don’t know what that could be. So hopefully people will feel the meaning of it. The purpose of it. And that the team and the culture is so much better than anywhere else that there isn’t a need for a loyalty thing on top of it.

[00:34:59] They feel like they’re their human needs are being filled. Yes. Yeah. And that’s our goal then that.

[00:35:08] And one more thing we’re doing is that we’re having quite a bit of flexibility. Flexibility. So me, for example, right now I’m making forty six thousand a year, but I’m only working 50 percent engagement. So I am half of that.

[00:35:21] Yeah. And that’s up for you to decide. Yeah.

[00:35:25] So basically I want to I would love us to have a culture in this unicorn rainbow world where there is no need for any incentives at all. People just want to be here in the same way that you might be super passionate about a football club that you’re coaching in or playing in or whatever, and you don’t get paid shit for being there. You just care about the football club. You want to be a part of it and you wanted to for the last decades. If we can create that culture that people just they’re here because they love this. I mean, you’re not gonna get an extra discount on your membership card in a football club because you’ve been a member for 10 years. You might actually get to pay more because you want to support the club a little bit extra. That’s the kind of culture an idea that I believe is completely possible. It’s just not where things are usually done.

[00:36:14] I think it’s possible to, but it really needs some explaining. And for someone to see this mission and to understand the best sellers and enabler, I think they’re equal owners. So we’re running up towards 40 minutes. It’s getting time to wrap up.

[00:36:33] Let’s say let’s touch upon one more thing. Yeah, because that was something that we clarified with you yesterday that made a big difference. So one of your concerns yesterday was that you were thirty 36000 now and you didn’t see a time when that would ever change. And with that, I just felt that you’re never gonna be able to have a full time engagement with great when you have kids or whatever, because it’s not going to cover your needs.

[00:36:55] I have costs are higher.

[00:36:57] Yeah.

[00:36:58] And the way I see this is that probably between thirty six thousand a year and seventy two thousand a year is going to be the lowest salary and the highest salary in organization. I don’t think anyone needs more than seventy two thousand to have a good living. And I think that everyone could benefit up to thirty six thousand two hundred good life. And at the moment we’re running on a huge loss. We’re losing lots of money every month with zero revenues and about 30000 years, a mounting cost. So that’s just not a sustainable approach. And our goal is to be our minds still that we’re going for to be self-sustaining financially by the summer. Meaning that we will actually have revenues coming in that covers everything. And once we reach that point, I think it makes sense to start looking at this. Okay. What is the need based thing? What is it that people want or how could we structure this in a different way? And the goal should be for everyone to feel. Yeah. Great. Can fill all my financial needs. So where your salary might be 40 or 45 per year if that’s what your need is. But at the moment, we don’t have any money coming in.

[00:38:10] We’re not in a sustainable position that once we are, that’s worth looking into. Yes. Awesome. Perfect. Good time to wrap up. Let’s do that. Welcome to the land of unicorns and rainbows. This was one of them. I don’t think this is the last Saturday. Sure not. All right. I’m going to reach out to buy.