#14 – Emails – How to reach anyone

Transcript

[00:00:01] All right. And welcome. Now, let me ask you this.

[00:00:05] Have you ever sent an e-mail to someone you really look up to only to find that they did not reply to you? Have they ever tried to reach someone and you didn’t even receive a response? Or even worse. Did you not know how to reach out to someone?

[00:00:24] Surjit didn’t even try to reach someone that could potentially be an influence or a mentor to you. If you have any of these problems, then this episode is for you because we will discuss how can you reach someone via email. And good morning, Eric. How are you?

[00:00:46] Good morning, Emma. I’m very well, thank you. I’m excited about this.

[00:00:50] All right. And if you’re checking it for the first time, my name is Emil and I’m the host of the Become a Great Podcast. And Eric, you are the founder of great dot com.

[00:01:02] That’s correct. And we’re doing this podcast to learn things together and explore everything about great and life in general.

[00:01:10] That’s right. Thank you for chipping in. I have a terrible memory and I forget things. But the good thing to be two brains when recording a podcast, we have realized it.

[00:01:20] Two brains is definitely better than one.

[00:01:22] Now, I had a. Tricky, challenging situation this weekend, because I was going out with some friends and I’m in a bar that’s kind of loud in the bar and over at the bar desk 10 meters away from me. See, a beautiful woman like she’s wearing a red dress, just looking really hot. And I can tell that she the way she carries herself. I can tell that she has. She knows that she she has high value. So obviously, I want to do. I want to do a great impression. So. I’m nervous shaking her off a bit. I’m walking over and I’m smoothly sitting down next to her. And I introduce myself. Hi. My name is a male. And then I start to talk about myself. And. I keep talking about myself for quite some time. Talk some more. And then I ask her a couple of favors. Yeah. And then she left. I don’t know what I did wrong. What do you think that I. What could I have done differently? I don’t understand.

[00:02:38] Well, to explain what the apple is going at here, we’re talking about the e-mails. And he’s describing a lot of scenarios where I’ve been in where I’ve been sending e-mails to people and not getting replies. And one thing that I’ve done a lot is say hi e-mail. And then I start telling them about why I’m so important, why what I’ve done and this and that and this and that. And then I’ve asked them for lunch or maybe for a job and for whatever and. I’ve realized that this is a very common way that I’ve been writing emails and lately I’ve been getting emails a lot like this and they’re not very fun replying to and when e-mail explains is in the way as picking up a woman in the bar, it makes complete sense that it’s not really a good approach to come up. Say hi, talk about yourself for five minutes and then ask for something. We would simply never do that.

[00:03:35] So just to clarify why we’re doing this episode now. Because you said you have been brining a lot of emails and you are trying to reach other people. But now the situation has switched a bit from you because now all of a sudden, instead of you being the guy walking up to the woman in the bar and this metaphor, I didn’t do that today. Instead of being the guy walking up to the woman, now you are sort of the woman in this situation. So what I’ve changed for you. How come the roads are switched?

[00:04:09] Yes. It’s been very interesting in the past couple of years. I’ve become the woman in the bar in the sense that a lot of people reach out to me asking for to get a job, asking for me to be some kind of a mentor or asking for a lunch or whatever. And. I’m ending up going to a lot of lunches and stuff, and I’ve ended up saying no to tons of things. And it’s been interesting to watch how my mind works with this and who I end up going to lunch with, because the most common emails are the ones that we were just referring to, people that reach out and explain a lot about themselves, what they are working with, their projects, whatever it is. Ask very few questions about me or talk very little about me and then ends up asking to go to lunch or whatever. And it’s really just takes me five minutes to read the email. And once I’m done, I’m not engaged in any way. I have no buiding in this. So I usually end up saying no because I have limited space and limited time in my schedule.

[00:05:16] And I don’t want I don’t even have the opportunity of engaging everyone. And then I can see the situations where I end up going to these lunches. And that’s usually when someone sends a short, playful email and asking about myself and talking about things that I’m interested in and not really asking for a favor or a lunch or anything. Early on in an e-mail to actually send a couple of e-mails back and forth, similar like it would be in a bar. If I sit down and I start asking her questions. Then we would pass the ball back and forth for an hour or so. Maybe then I could ask her for a lunch, dinner or date, whatever the next day, but it would never go up and do that in the first five minutes. It’s been very interesting then to see how I’m interacting with these emails that I get from the other side and what I can learn from my own behavior in this book. I’m guessing that my behavior is similar to how other people would work in these situations as well.

[00:06:16] Mm hmm.

[00:06:19] Does makes a lot of sense to me. So just to summarize what you’re saying, you’re saying that before before you experienced what it’s like to be the woman and to clarify, you’ve been on quite a few big podcasts in Sweden and thanks to that, people have been writing you more email and that’s over the last two years. So maybe. Right? That’s correct. Yeah. So you experienced that? US, the woman people are waking up. They are introducing herself, telling our long story. That is about themselves. And then asks for. A favor and that it’s too much to ask from someone in the beginning. Instead, you would just like someone to come up and say, oh yes, one comment, something playful and then ask for maybe 20 seconds.

[00:07:10] Right. Yeah. It’s the equivalent here, a great way of getting me engaged in an e-mail than would be. Hi, Eric. I listen to you here and here. You said these and these things that I really got inspired by. That changed my life somehow or this and that. And then asking some small question, maybe what other podcasters you want to do? Or could you please give me a short advice on this thing or something small, which would be the equivalent of going up to someone in a bar saying, hey, you caught my attention because of the red dress that you’re wearing or the way you’re holding yourself up? Yeah, it does. Does the dress have a story or whatever, getting them to talk about themselves and being engaged? As for time commitment. Yeah, exactly the time. The commitment of explaining the story of the dress or the earrings or whatever it might be.

[00:08:06] I like something you said when you were counting your. Well, something you just said is that. You inspired me to make this change in my life. I think that would at least make me if I was the woman that would make me interesting instead in wanting to share more, if I can see that. Oh, something I did costand changed her life for the better.

[00:08:30] Yeah. Yeah, that reminds me of of one email that I got and that is actually. Probably the e-mail that had given me the most emotions and most feelings about an e-mail that I’ve gotten and I got that from a teenage guy in Sweden is like 18 years old maybe. And he had seen me on a stage like the earlier. And he came up to me after the stage and after the speech and he said, but you’re wearing so normal clothes, you’re rich. But but you don’t have fancy clothes. And it didn’t strike me as a big thing at the time, and we kept talking a little bit and it wasn’t more with that.

[00:09:18] And then I got an e-mail from him a couple of months ago and that was actually quite, quite long email. But he spoke about how the fact that I wasn’t wearing expensive clothes has impacted him in his life. He says Before I always bought these clothes, I wanted people to see me for my brand labels. I was living in a in a quite shit area. So I did things to get the money to to buy the clothes I couldn’t afford just because I wanted to be accepted. After hearing you speak and seeing you, I want people to see me for me so I don’t actually buy these clothes anymore. I’ve actually given some of them away. And just the other week I went and bought a pair of sunglasses for one hundred and fifty euros. And then I took them home. I realized I don’t want these, so I returned them. And just that story became so powerful. Me, because he was I had done something that had impacted him and he was so specific in what way it impacted. And he was so grateful for that.

[00:10:24] How did that make you feel? How would that cause you to act differently in the future?

[00:10:32] I mean, it what it did, what it showed me value in what I’m saying and what I’m doing in a way that I could ever have foreseen. I could never imagine that me on a stage.

[00:10:47] Would impact a age man to not buy expensive clothes or to change his values and perspectives of what’s important to him. That. Just him putting a lights on undervaluing what I did made me feel so appreciated and so valuable and it made me want to get up on stage is talk more, do more things knowing that it could have a positive impact on people.

[00:11:16] It’s a very deep way of validating someone, especially great leadership from that guy, because he’s he’s making you grow as a leader. And just in that e-mail and in that comment.

[00:11:29] And I think that’s such a powerful force once again, just me learning about how I interact with reading an e-mail and giving me the opportunity to see what it is on the other end. Yeah. So if if you are sending someone an e-mail and you can move them like this, you know, move them in a way. So they’re actually telling the story in a podcast or somewhere else. That means that you’re really reached out, really down. The person you want to send an e-mail to, you’ve done them a huge favor or something really, really nice for them that they will most definitely respond and most definitely engage with you.

[00:12:06] And everyone’s a winner. Yeah. He’s really give me value there. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:14] It will probably be hard to find a similar situation with a woman in a bar. But if you’re emailing someone or doing something and they’ve actually have a very good reason for reaching out, you have to wait approach to it.

[00:12:25] So when people do reach out, what do they usually want? What are they usually asking for? An email?

[00:12:33] So the most common things are the ones lunch long meeting. They want me to look at an investment opportunity to invest in their companies and their business ideas. They want a mentorship or or a job opportunity. These are by far the most most common things.

[00:12:56] Mm hmm. And.

[00:13:01] How many of these do you say just two or more. Move forward with and then count? What is kind of the difference if there is a difference in the way they write their email?

[00:13:14] I say no to pretty much everything. And I do that because I have very limited time. And the ones I end up. So I reply to all e-mails. At least I try and think of reply to all he might have gotten and the ones that manage to engage me. We might end up sending five or 10 e-mails back and forward and suddenly they might ask me for a lunch. Or maybe I’m getting engaged in what they’re actually talking about because they manage to catch my attention. But I need to get to know the personality a bit, I need to feel that they care about me. I need to feel that. OK. They are doing this to add value to my life. Like this guy reaching out and telling me something, that’s me value. They’re not just coming to me, asking me to give them value. And that’s a key thing in here where I’ve failed so many times. I’ve been writing e-mails to people. I’ve only been talking about myself and asking them for something they haven’t looked for. How is this valuable to e-mail or whoever I’m sending the message to?

[00:14:17] Yeah. So if you go back to metaphor again, that would be like a lot of people, I guess. Now I have done it myself. Walk up to the woman because, well, I can only speak for myself. I woke up to the woman and I want something out of her. And it’s so transparent and so obvious. Yeah. So I said, if I say, OK, whatever happens for me, that doesn’t matter. At least I can make sure I want her to have a good time here. We’ll give her value somehow in this conversation.

[00:14:45] Yeah, I think that’s a huge, huge difference. Whatever it regardless if you want to meet the love of your life in a bar or find a mentor or an e-mail, I think you know the same way of thinking. And in both scenarios, it’s I’ve definitely been guilty of of messing up the power there and just going up to someone because I want something, not because I think that I can give something or enhance their life somewhat.

[00:15:14] I’m just curious.

[00:15:15] We haven’t talked about this, but I’m curious if you were looking for a mentor, let’s say you saw a person that you really look up to and now you are going. You’re gonna be the guy now and you’re gonna reach out to this person via e-mail. And what you want is a mentorship. The. What would you how would you even begin that?

[00:15:38] Case, I’ve done this and both failed and succeeded with. So if I were to do it today and I would reach out to let’s say Tim Ferriss has got this huge podcast who I really look up to and that I’ve gotten a lot of valuable advice from. Then I would start by doing research on team first, finding out what we’re thinking about. What has he done that has changed my life somehow? So small thing that comes to mind right now is that he’s talking about this this app for Chrome that’s called the Facebook News Feed eradicators, which blocks your Facebook feed you. You can’t waste time on that. And I used to be addicted to the Facebook feed. And just by installing that little app, that completely changed my behavior online. So that’s one thing I could tell you. Hey, Tim, I just wanted to reach out and thank you for for recommending this this app. It has saved me so much time to. To not be addicted to Facebook anymore. And. I would end that e-mail then with either. Ask him if I could do something for him, if I know of something he might need. Maybe he’s spoken about something else a in another podcast. Maybe he says that he’s. He wants to write a book or whatever, and like I could just say, I would be happy to to read and give it my comments. Something like that more I would ask for something. If I can’t come up with something that I can add value, I would ask him something very small. Like, What other are your favorite tips for saving time online? And I wouldn’t write anything more than that. I would just highlight what he did to me and how it made me feel and how it changed my life and ask something very small to get him to engage.

[00:17:42] And is it possible to offer too much? Let’s say I would work free for you for a year. Would that be too much?

[00:17:50] What’s what a sense I’ve been getting those kind of offers as well. And the tricky thing with that is that. It’s as you say, you’re offering too much. It’s not really balanced. If you worked for free for me for a year, I would feel obligated to give you something. But if you just read the little article and gave me your feedback on it, I would not feel obligated.

[00:18:18] All right. It’s called juice. So there are some there’s some are getting them behind such a nice hook in that.

[00:18:24] So if if I just offer myself to read an article, that could be just to thank him for telling me about this newsfeed about to cater. Yeah, but if I ask offer to work for him for a year, then I’m basically saying, can you be my mentor and I’ll pick up your dry cleaning. Yeah, it’s it’s kind of the difference there. And to be honest, it’s also someone offering to work for free. It it sounds like a very nice thing to give, but it takes a lot of work to keep someone occupied. It’s basically like saying, can I be your intern and you’re studying in school. I mean, I’m sure you had internships in school when you were in a restaurant or wherever. And it still takes a lot of time for the manager or for the owner to keep you occupied. Yeah. And you’re 14 years old. You’re probably not very good at what you’re doing. So that’s a story, isn’t it? Yeah, you can definitely offer too much. Offer something something small. And the goal is just to get them to reply. The goal is not to get a mentor chip or to get a job at that stage. It’s just get them to answer, which is probably really hard with a guy like Tim Ferriss who probably gets at least a thousand e-mails a day.

[00:19:44] Yeah.

[00:19:47] So who would you reach out to? If you’re trying to do this, maybe Tim Ferris’s is way, way too high. How how do you think that you should think about where to reach?

[00:19:59] So if two first is to high. Maybe start to look is someone I look up to that would know Tim Ferris if Tim Farris is the one I would like to reach. I start there.

[00:20:13] And goodness. I missed too big of a jump. Yeah, I think the key.

[00:20:20] Well, regardless how perfect your email is, if you’re sending it to someone who doesn’t read the emails because they get too many emails. Then it’s probably not a good thing. I’ve actually sent e-mails to to Tim Ferriss. Using this strategy and it didn’t work. I got hold of his assistant and I’ve been sending back and forth his assistant, but I’ve never gotten past her house. It’s. It’s not bulletproof in in any way, but I’ve used similar things, sending e-mails to people that I that I admire but are closer to where I am. So I did this with Shelly and hogger, which is this Swedish coach seems like a Swedish version of Tony Robbins in a sense, and probably gets 1 percent of the e-mails that Tony gets. But can I really look up to him? And I I’ve been listening to his his radio show in Sweden. So plot that he has done. Mm hmm. I don’t know how many times. And it’s just so good. And it’s the same thing there. Then I told him about. He’s speaking a lot about how to interact with your emotions and how all emotions are good. And I used to think of emotions as weakness. And he was part in changing that. So I told him about those things. And him I’ve actually had lunch and dinner with many times after that.

[00:21:44] Mm hmm. Do you think e mails? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that came from e-mails. Yeah.

[00:21:55] That’s interesting. What do you think? E-mail is a good way to reach someone or do you think there is an even better approach?

[00:22:05] I think compared to the. The level of of energy you need to put into an email to send to someone, it’s it’s a very low risk game. The worst thing that can happen is basically they don’t answer. And you put in probably at Max one hour into that email and it’s not even remotely as scary as picking up the phone. I think that picking up the phone makes it more likely that you actually manage to reach the person, but you’re also making a stronger claim on their time, which might not be so appreciated. So some sometimes I’ve been getting calls from people who’ve heard me speak somewhere and it end up with me always answering their questions and giving them kind of what it is that they’re looking for. But afterwards I feel used. So I feel like the this for me. They cornered me. I couldn’t because I answered the phone if it’s ringing and then they say, oh, hey, this is Karl. I’ve heard your podcast. I just wanna ask you a few questions. And I can’t just hang up there even if I might want to. Even if I’m in a bad spot or whatever. So it’s a better way in the ways that you might get answers to questions. But I I personally don’t like when people are calling me.

[00:23:27] And that’s why my experience ha would have to be very charming for that to work and make you feel really good on the phone. Maybe if you are, that could be a good approach.

[00:23:38] Yeah. I mean, you could probably do the same thing there. He’s not asking for anything, so a car would call me and he would tell me about something I did and how it changed my life, his life for his day to day and end up by saying this was all I wanted. Thank you so much for your time. Is it okay if I send you an email and maybe do it that way? Or is it okay if I call you again sometime when you have more time or something similar?

[00:24:07] Raise your awareness that he is not gonna take up all of your time. Yeah. PESCA Yeah.

[00:24:14] Yeah. So common thing is someone calling, asking for a few minutes, end up talking for 20 minutes. And I’m like, yeah, I was not a part of this game. And I feel that I. I feel that I have two options. Either be polite and keep talking or feel that I have to kind of reject someone. And that’s never a nice place to be in either, because it’s tricky to turn someone down. And I might not have the time or be in a place where I want to talk.

[00:24:46] You used to trick. Like, if I did that the first time, too, you can assume that they are gonna want Gordon to tell you in the future.

[00:24:54] Exactly. So I would if I wanted to reach someone badly and let’s say I can’t get hold of that person. The email, I would start trying to find ways to bring them value and get them to see me. So. Let’s say Tim Ferris again, then I really want to reach him. I would start looking at whatever he’s doing on on social media and every time I get I’ll give him very positive feedback on the things that he’s sharing. Well, this and this tips was so good and do the same thing, kind of sending the same email over and over. But in comments, feeds and sharing his material and doing all of these things where I’m constantly giving him value and hopefully he will at some point answer a comment or do something to start the interaction there, because what he’s reading, maybe not all comments and all things you get, but he’s reading enough of it. So if you’re adding enough of value, enough of times, he will start seeing what you’re doing and hopefully he will appreciate it and you get a chance to prove yourself.

[00:26:11] Yeah. And I think one important thing to realize that someone like you, just like the woman in the bar, she wants men to approach. Maybe. Maybe. But she might want men to approach her as as you want. You probably want people to reach out to. But don’t. And you want to help people. You want to give value. You want to be nice. Do you want to help out? Do you want to provide a good time for people? But you don’t have time to answer to everyone. So you sort of have to choose the one where that would be a good time for you and where you feel like this are the ones that have the most value.

[00:26:53] Yeah, definitely. So I’m answering tons of e-mails, but if I engaged in long conversations with all of them, I wouldn’t have time to eat.

[00:27:03] Yeah.

[00:27:06] And I really want to help a friend of mine told me a story here, how he reached out to another Swedish inspirer. I’m not going to say his name was similar to shelly-ann. Hauger just reached out to an email and he said, Well, I’m doing this. I’m doing this. Public speaking and doing this and that. And. And he didn’t expect even a reply. But this influencer was very, very helpful to him. And he said, you know, every time I’m on a train somewhere because I go around and do public speeches or on Twitter, every time I’m on a train, I’m giving my time to younger people that want to learn. We give away a free call. And he did that a couple of times, then tried to help him become better. Thanks. Let’s see. And, you know, I think the main thing there was his my friend’s mind was blown that, wow, this guy that he’s a huge inspired. We actually want to take his time to help me. Yes, to be nice.

[00:28:12] You never know. You never know. You can imagine that a lot of people are like that. I’ve been surprised of how helpful people that average out to has been and now being on the other end of it. I can really see what a it’s a huge compliment that someone reaches out and wants my opinion on something. It s it says to me that, hey, I value your opinion and and it’s it’s a huge compliment. So if it’s done well, I’m so happy to help in those scenarios.

[00:28:48] And I think that’s a key concept. I think I said that should be an error code before you. I think you said something like asking someone for help is a complement to that person. Yes. Or I’m probably misquoting you. What did you say? Because he’s a good cause.

[00:29:04] Yeah. Said that. That asking someone for help is paying someone continents. Yeah. Especially if you’re asking for specific help and you’re tying it into to something that you really admire in that person. So I. I can see it in how I’ve been interacting with people when I am when I need help with recruitment. So I’ve reached out to four or five different people. I know. And I’ve told them, like, I’m so impressed with how you’ve done this or that. And I really admire this. Can I have an hour of your time? Because I think that you know a lot more than I do. Mm hmm. I after one of these these calls that I had, the guy I had the call with. So thank you for this. I feel very good for being able to help you. It’s the same thing that it’s it’s a value. It’s a value transition, in a sense, where the value I’m if I’m helping someone, the value I get is that I feel valued. I feel appreciated. I feel smart. I feel good about myself and the value the other person gets.

[00:30:13] Hopefully perspectives some things that can help them on the way.

[00:30:21] You and I, we have spent quite a bit of time on how to technically write an email like how can you use alliterations and write opening phrases and stuff like that technical stuff. But to me, none of that is nearly as important as the mindset that the person sending that e-mail is coming from is the person giving value. Had the person actually botched your material and learn from it, then made that change them. Are they implementing if you can convey those kind of things? I think that sense it shows in the email that this is the type of person that you want to be involved with. I think that mindset.

[00:31:02] Know, I think if you have the mindset, that’s half the battle is won there. Yeah, I’m sure there are tons of technical things. We’ve got this big document with various tools that we’re using, but the mindset is half the battle for sure.

[00:31:17] Mm hmm.

[00:31:21] Is there something more you want to add to this concept? Before we summarize what we learned today to make this up so a little bit shorter, maybe.

[00:31:32] Yeah, I think just encouraging people to actually some emails to to the ones you think can help them keeping this in mind. Like asking for help is actually paying someone a compliment. No one is ever going to be angry for getting a well written email. So the worst thing that you can get is no one answers. So whenever you feel that you you look up to someone or you want to work with someone or something else. Reach out. Because it’s it’s very likely that the person actually wants to give his waste time on a train, more likely that he or she, for that matter, wants to help out some other way, or that they just get happy for knowing what kind of positive influence that had in your life. It’s a lot less scary to send an email to someone than it is to walk up to the beautiful woman in the bar, because that’s frickin scary and it’s pretty scary to send an e-mail as well. But at least in my experience, it’s not by comparison. So, yes, and more e-mails.

[00:32:39] And I think you can really add love to someone’s life, too. I know. Would you have received some e-mails that are something like the thing you did changed my life in this way and I know how happy you become. And then you share that e-mail in our slack and then the whole team gets. Some kind of gratitude and appreciation and good feeling that what you are doing and then what we are doing is actually making a difference out there.

[00:33:06] So the ripple effects to.

[00:33:10] Pay more compliments suddenly means. Cool if you want. Weekly wrap up, what do you take from this this episode?

[00:33:17] Yes. The importance of validating people deeply by saying how what they did have changed me in the future. And if that could come from an emotional place, either in text or in life, I think that is great leadership, actually. I think what the guy who paid you a compliment for the clothes, that was great leadership by him. So I can see how those are very useful scale. I want to think about that more. And that day as well, that just reaching out in general. Coming from the right mindset might be a win win win win win situation. And you never know. Sun Canada one my answer and then who knows? You’ve got a lunch mentor and stuff can happen. What have you learned today?

[00:34:02] So some are some some quick things that if he’s if you’re doing those in an e-mail, you are way, way more likely. At least that I would reply. I can’t tell for when I was in my experience and that’s be specific with what this other person have done that meant something for you. And if that’s nothing, if you’re just asking for a job, find something. Don’t send an email. Not giving them something specific that you appreciate could be about the company. Make it short. Get emotions in there. But this meant as much and did this and ask for something small. Don’t ask someone for a meeting or a lunch or a mentorship in a first email. Ask for a reply and take it from there. Think about it as meeting someone in a bar or restaurant and how to engage in the first couple of minutes. You’re not going to ask for big things.

[00:34:59] Mm hmm.

[00:35:00] That’s a very well summary. And it seems befitting now to say that if you have any feedback on this episode, if you have any more ideas, if you think we are way off or right on, please send us a well written email.

[00:35:14] And if it’s not, we will publicly shame you. Bernie on a steak, throw tomatoes at you and send it to podcast. Great column. Please practice your skills. You never know what’s happening.

[00:35:29] Find the word, sir. No, thank you for today. All right. Good. This was great. All right, guys. See you next week. Take care.