The €500 000 phone call - Update

Summary

We are back from our summer break and there are a lot of things that have happened. Today we will discuss what's going on and give you an update on Great.com.

First: We will talk about that Great.com still makes 0 in revenue, why that is, how it feels and what we are doing about it. In this segment you will learn about how to deal with struggling times and how to stay focused on the positive sides of the business.

Secondly: We go in to a phone call Erik had that created €500 000 in 20 minutes. A call that will change a lot about how Erik spends his time moving forward. In this segment you will learn more about how to think when you are networking.

Thirdly: We enter the topic of recruitment, our current challenges and progress. In this segment you will learn about the challenges of recruitment, how to think and what mistakes to avoid.

And lastly: We are following up on our last update episode where we talked about our $100 000 donation - we were hoping for a lot of publicity, did we succeed or fail?

--
This is an "Update episode", it means that In today's episode of Becoming Great.com podcast, Emil Ekvardt and Erik Bergman, explore the very real challenges and problems that come up when building Great.com. A company that gives away 100% of its profit to protect the environment.

This is an opportunity for you to get a behind the scenes look, of what it feels like to build a company - and also get an update on our progress.

What you learn here is not something you will read in a book. It’s the real story of how Great.com gets built.

Great.com talks with Clean Air Task Force #21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiuo1DKFBYk

Follow Erik Bergman and Emil Ekvardt on their social channels!
linktr.ee/smilingerik
linktr.ee/emil.e

Transcript

[00:00:04] About two weeks ago, a friend of mine that I haven't spoken to quite a long time, and he reached out to me and said, Hey, Erik, I've seen you doing a lot of things about charity and I want to give away a million euros. He has made a lot of money in the gambling industry as well, and I don't know how to do that. Can you please guide me?

[00:00:50] So I hung up the phone after a 20 minute phone call that generated five hundred thousand euros.

[00:01:00] I felt my jaw dropped and I knew that I stumbled onto something big. Question was just how am I going to take this further?

[00:01:13] And as you hear, this is a normal, ordinary day in the life of Eric Burgman. And if you're new here to our podcast and don't know who Eric is, he is the founder of Great Dotcom, a company that gives away 100 percent of its profits to save the climate. And before Eric turns 30, he made over 50 million euros when he co-founded the company Catina Media and took Catena from zero to three hundred employees in just five years. And he's also very eager and energized to teach his over two hundred and fifty thousand Instagram followers everything he knows about business and personal development.

[00:01:55] Hey, hey, and good to see you again. Long time. And I'm here with Immelt, who was the first one joining me in Great over two years ago, and he is the host of this becoming great podcast and also our other charity podcast. And he's among the most annoyingly intelligent people that I've met in my life. And he's my creative sparring partner that I love learning things together with YouTube, Instagram and Twitter, creating all this content and on the side of podcasting and great. He runs a personal development coaching business. How are you today, my good friend?

[00:02:35] I am excited to be back and like you mentioned, we are just back after a break. We took a summer break and gentlemen, as we are, we didn't tell anyone. We just kind of vanished. So I was actually kind of a douche move. So we're sorry about that. Next year with try to announce when we leave you to do things in the sun, swimming and so on. And if you're new here to the podcast, this is becoming great dotcom podcast. And the purpose and why we have these conversations is to help and inspire you. Who wants to make the world or just your own life, too, for that matter, better to entrepreneurship and personal development. Today's episode is an up to date episode where you get a sneak peek into what startup life really is. And we share our victories and challenges in building great dotcom. And today's episode is divided into four topics. In the first topics, we are looking at the fact that great dotcom is still making Serah revenue, how that feels and what we're going to do to change that. In the second topic, we're going to look at that mysterious phone call where Eric made or whatever he did, five hundred thousand euros in 20 minutes. And in the third topic, we're going to look at recruitment. We have just finished a pretty drawn out process to hire a podcast coordinator. And we're going to dissect what we did well and what we could have done better. And in the fourth topic, we are going to look at a hundred thousand dollar donation they recently did and how we did with our intentions of getting PR. Did we succeed or did we fail?

[00:04:19] Zero revenues and we are two years into this project, how does it feel? Eric?

[00:04:29] I find myself looking for good reasons why we have zero revenues, I find myself. Arguing that this is a good thing and at the same time, I feel.

[00:04:48] Both frustrated, a bit of shame. And. It's stupid.

[00:04:57] Or the fact that we have zero revenues and haven't. From the looks of it, got him further than we have.

[00:05:04] Right, and do you think those negative emotions come from some kind of outside pressure that you had previous successes and now. People, whoever that is, expect you to succeed right away.

[00:05:18] Not sure where it's coming, I think it comes more from me than anything else, and so when I'm looking at the progress that we have made, I think that we have done amazing work at putting together a really good team of people.

[00:05:33] And I think that that's it's a crucial part of the strategy that I believe is the best. I get the people together, get the people collaborating well, and then build a product. And you might come up with a new idea for the product when you have the people there. But in most businesses and in the business, I've been involved before, it's been created first the idea, first the structure for the idea and then get the team to build it. And then it's obviously easier to kind of get the momentum going because, you know already what you want to build.

[00:06:06] And I do believe that.

[00:06:10] The way we're doing it now is long term, more efficient, and I'm still struggling a little bit with it because I'm not sure if this is my inner brilliant lawyer defending my own strategy here or if it is actually the best approach to it.

[00:06:32] So what would be the actions we are taking right now to change this, because you can build a team for a while, right? But at a certain point, they need to start building a product.

[00:06:42] Yes, definitely. So what we've done now over the last few weeks has been to shift from having I would say that our top priority up until now has been let's build the best possible team, let's unite our values, let's do all of these things.

[00:07:01] And now it's shifted to our top priority is let's build a product. Let's get to a point where we have revenues. Let's do these things. And I think that up until now, we probably had ninety five percent of the focus on very long term things like team building, like values, like these things, and maybe just five percent focus on product. And I think looking back, I wish that we would maybe had been on an 80 20 says. I still believe it's a good thing that we've had so much focused on the team and these things. But I feel it would have felt good to come a bit further with the with the product. And now the shift that we're going into, as we have for the last couple of weeks has been OK. Maybe it's worth it to put ninety five percent of the focus on actually getting the products, getting momentum, getting things going, gets some quick wins that we actually haven't had. So that's been a big, big shift in going from ninety five percent long term to ninety five percent short term or whatever you want to call it. And I believe it's the right call and it's a drastic call in many ways.

[00:08:14] Right. And to me it all makes sense. So.

[00:08:19] I guess men are listening to this are also interested in running their own businesses. What would you say they can take away from the approach you have had with great extreme long term thinking and pulling away, getting the profits?

[00:08:36] I believe that doing it the way we are doing it can only be done if you have significant financial backup. It's OK for us to not make profit for a long time, which for most businesses it's not. You need to make money. But I think keeping you just thinking about the question, how much time are we spending on long term focus versus short term focus? How much time are we focused on finding the right people rather than start building the product to think that we have taken it to an extreme, which is hard to apply for most businesses. But I believe that. It's valuable to at least have more of the long term thinking than the average company does. I think that one of the mistakes that I did early on was only thinking about the now hiring for the now making decisions. What do I need right now instead of looking up and keeping a long term focus? I think that it's worth to for someone listening to this, as well as to keep in mind the question, how much time am I actually working on things that are long term and how much time I'm actually working on things that are short term. And my guess is that almost everyone spends almost all their time on the short term thing. And I'm basing that on how I've done it in the past and the companies I've been close to. And I think it's worth to to just be aware, maybe not change anything, but be aware of that. How much time am I working short term and how much long term to have something you want to add on this topic before we move on?

[00:10:10] Let's move on. Well, then I am curious to dissect what happened in that phone call where you found five hundred thousand dollars, 20 minutes.

[00:10:29] So what happened?

[00:10:35] Ok, so this was about two weeks ago, a friend of mine that I haven't spoken to in quite a long time and not someone I know very well, the guy I've been working with, he reached out to me and said, hey, Eric, I've seen you doing a lot of things about charity and I want to give away a million euros. He has made a lot of money in the gambling industry as well, and I don't know how to do that. Can you please guide me? And we were talking for like 20 minutes about the organizations that I believe are the best. And I was referring to Clean Air Task Force after the podcast interview that you did with them. That really inspired me. I think that was episode twenty. One of the great dotcom talks with podcast will leave the link in the description. When I started talking about the terrorism and things that I knew and I realise, I know a lot about charity and I have a big heart for it, big passion for it and well, we hung up after 20 minutes. The last thing is said, like, good, I'm going to give five hundred thousand euros to Clean Air Task Force, this organization, and I trust you.

[00:11:44] And that was like me when I hung up. I was like, OK, he really wanted help. He had a lot of money that he wants to give away. I want to give away a lot of money. And he was still looking for like someone to trust, someone who knew something about this. And that would have been equal to great earning five hundred thousand euros and giving it away. But that would be a much, much bigger effort. So I realized.

[00:12:13] A lot of things in this conversation, partly that the things that have been making an effort for in social media and kind of talking about charity and doing donations publicly actually led to someone reaching out to me, wanting my my advice on where to give and now hopefully will donate five hundred thousand years to what I believe is the best organization in the world, making the biggest impact in the world right now.

[00:12:40] So I sat there contemplating this was how many other entrepreneurs out there is looking for similar guidance, how many struggle with not knowing where to give or what to trust them. So this was how it all started.

[00:12:58] But it's very interesting and. An opportunity that I understand you feel excited about and.

[00:13:09] Yeah, it's interesting that he looks up to you, I guess, your personality on social media, like you said, you're running a company that gives away all of the profits. I mean, I guess he's looking for someone that he can trust and someone that has done the research maybe belonging as well. I mean, yeah, to me, I was thinking of you the other day, actually. And to me, your personality in its core is a network. I know that is a big part of the reason why you have been successful with the media, so. You said in the beginning of this conversation, how can I take this further, how can you take your networking skills for what?

[00:13:49] What I started doing this. I got really excited that a 20 minute conversation generated five hundred thousand euros to a very important cause. And I mean, he was still intending to give away the money. But there is a lot of organizations out there that doesn't do that much difference. Unfortunately, it is very likely that he would have ended up giving them somewhere else. So just knowing that my knowledge, hopefully a benefit to the world very much in the situation, got me excited. And I started writing down a list of all the other entrepreneurs that I know people have been working with in the past, or just general people that I know have a lot of money to see are these people contemplating similar things? And I realized that I know a lot of people with money. So I wrote a long list. They started brainstorming. I started asking myself, OK, how could I get more people interested in charity? How could I can I benefit them somehow? Can I give them whatever it is that they need to start doing these things? And I started calling them. So I reached out to a lot of people that I've known or that I've been talking to in the past and just wanting to understand their perspective on charity.

[00:15:03] I ask them what what what would they do if they wanted to get other people interested in charity?

[00:15:11] What kind of courses do they care about? And I found out that there is a lot of people have the same questions, like a lot of people wonder who they could trust. A lot of people have problems with charities or think there is a lot of corruption and a lot of things around it. So at the moment, this is still taking shape in my head. How can I help? How can I be of service is the best way I can do to create an event for people with money who wants to help? Could that make a huge impact for the world and inspire people to give away lots of money? Or should I just sit and call and see what people might need help with? Or and I don't want to come across as some kind of a telephone salesman. I don't want to push people to donate money who doesn't want to give money. But I realize that there is a lot of people out there who could be giving away a lot of money, who probably want to give a lot of the way, a lot of money, but it's for one reason or another not doing it.

[00:16:11] So it got to be a bit conflicting for you having this huge opportunity and at the same time I sense hesitance that I don't really want to be pushy towards these people. And I want to probably you run a company, you're probably busy. How do you.

[00:16:28] And I'm torn. I feel that I'm a little bit overwhelmed of this idea because I believe that one of the best things that I could do for the world would be to inspire rich entrepreneurs to give away money, inspire them to give away money to organizations that are proven to be world class.

[00:16:51] And at the same time, I I want to focus on the product, like we said here. I want to give all of my intention to to great outcome and building the best product there can be. So I'm I'm torn here with what to do with my time. That one voice in me tells me that the best thing I could do is to arrange an event, get rich people that I've been one way or another in contact with, together with charity experts and hopefully get them inspired to do that. But that's a lot of work. It's a lot of time. It's hard. We'll take a lot of energy and at the same time, it might be the best thing I can do. So. I'm mainly torn, I'm feeling overwhelmed of a fantastic opportunity and still a lack of time and energy.

[00:17:39] I understand that conflict, especially when great, is making zero revenue at the moment. This sounds like a loop that is just being opened up that we might return to at some point.

[00:17:50] It's just something more you would like to add now before we go to the next time so that we can revisit this one again in the future. And hopefully there will be many more phone calls that have generated a lot of money for great organizations out there. Right.

[00:18:05] So let's move on to recruitment, because I believe for me that's been the biggest challenge in in business. And there's if you can solve that riddle, you can solve pretty much anything else. So let's dive into what we've learned about it.

[00:18:28] Recruitment can be tricky. Imagine that you have two candidates for a role and they're both great, but in completely different ways, personality types, which road do you choose?

[00:18:42] That's just one of many ways recruitment can be tricky, I guess, but in fairness, we were in a quite luxurious situation when we were going to hire a podcast coordinator for the great team because we had about five hundred people that applied for the role. So we had a lot to choose from. And we boil it down to six people that we took in for first interviews and then a work test, and then we boiled it down to two. And we have some concerns about how well we dealt with this process. And also we took a pretty unconventional approach by offering to people the role for one and a half months where they would both tried to job and then we would see who did the best job. Now, this is a bit unconventional, so how do you feel about this strategy, Eric, and to give some extra context on this.

[00:19:36] We started advertising about Israel in March and now it's July. So it's been it's been taking quite a long time. And the reason has been that we got swarmed with applicants that we didn't really prepare for. So I could see one of the first errors that we did was to actually allow applicants from everywhere and not having a sorting system, sorting system in place to start with. So Joakim was running the recruitment had to go through five hundred applicants, one by one, without really knowing anything. Reading all the is wasting a lot of time there. So just looking at that part about the process, if we start there, something that I have learned from that and I can see us doing a lot better is the next time hire have somewhat of a template where they can answer a couple of questions on beforehand. For example, we know what time zone they're in because now when we had 500 applicants, we were never going to take someone who had a time zone to far away because we're a remote organization. We wouldn't take someone in Australia, but we didn't know that. So instead we could we had to check that manually. Where are them, how they're doing? So I think that's the first thing that I take with me from this, is that it's not ideal to have that long process.

[00:20:56] And if we look into this specific situation here, what happened was that, as you mentioned, we had six candidates we really liked out of which two stood out and we couldn't really decide upon them. So we offered them both to try the job for six weeks on a part time basis and see who did the best job. And I'm torn about this. I can see from a company perspective, that's great. If both of them try four to six weeks, you can really see who's the best and we can hire the best person. And recruitment is everything. Like if you do really well, recruiting and hire the best people in the company, you're not going to have many other problems. But what ended up happening here and what is the big risk for happening here is that one of those two top candidates actually got another full time job offer and didn't want to take the risk of staying on for six weeks and maybe not get the job. So she took that job instead of going on for this six week paid trial. And we might have ended up losing the best candidate there. We don't know because we didn't have another way of deciding.

[00:22:06] So I'm I'm torn. I think a recruitment process should be as fast as possible. And I don't know how we could have done this better. Well, I know that we could have sorted Chris a lot faster. Carone, I came. That made things tricky as well. And it's just interesting to to look at it from the from the outside.

[00:22:33] It's been a it's been a learning process. I mean, we haven't done much distance recruitment before either. What did you take away from this process?

[00:22:42] So I don't have much experience in recruitment. And I was surprised at how long it took as well. We went from Marsch. Now it's in the end of July. And during all of that time, we have been on a standstill with the charity podcast that this person is supposed to run. And I don't really understand. How much better we got the picking the right person by taking this much time compared to get someone in faster with maybe a less big work test or less to use or anything like that just to. Get the person in faster. I don't know if you could have made it in two months instead, and they. How much worse it would have been at picking the right person? I don't know.

[00:23:31] I don't know. I think the one thing that is worth keeping in mind for people hiring people is. Let's say you pick someone that is 10 percent better than someone else, that means and they stay for let's say they stay for a year and they get 10 percent more done than someone else.

[00:23:52] That is one point two extra months of effort that they're going to be able to produce. So, yes, that 10 percent alone wouldn't be worth one point two months of working time to get someone in their innocence. And if someone stays for 10 years, that means that this person would be one extra year in comparison.

[00:24:15] And it's a lot more than that because how they will they work with a team, how well they perform, how how well they work individually between the best candidate and the second best candidate. It can be two hundred percent, which is hard to discern where it is or how to see it.

[00:24:31] I believe that as a company, how much time is spent on recruitment is. Drastically.

[00:24:41] Under prioritised in general, at the same time, looking at this recruitment, I don't think that we spent that much time on it. We just spread it out a lot. I think that we could have done this a lot more efficiently. I think we could have made it a bigger priority than we did. Then again, we got a lot more candidates than anticipated. We had Korona. We had some technical issues that we need to dealt with.

[00:25:05] But just keeping that in mind is, like we said, we would want to speed it up and we would want to have a better process for sure.

[00:25:15] I agree. So.

[00:25:17] Do you have something more to add, if not summarize what someone can learn from this and after that, we're moving into the final topic.

[00:25:23] So what my key takeaways is from this is that if you're building a remote team, you're going to get a lot of recruitments from all over the world. We haven't hired we haven't advertised for any role before, so we couldn't anticipate getting so many people from so many places because if you're usually hiring in one city, you cannot get that many applicants. So we get five hundred applicants, which I was I would have been happy with 20. So keeping in mind, if you're hiring for a remote team, I think build a funnel in a sense, build something that they need to do manually to apply so you can check where are they from or what languages do they speak or all these things. He doesn't need to be done manually because I think that's where the biggest time consumption was. And the thing was, don't use your regular email address for all of these calls coming in. So all of them went to Joakim. So he got five hundred I in more than five hundred emails coming in over a month or so, just flooding him in general all the time.

[00:26:25] So very simple things that we could have done better. Just set up a specific email inbox for this and have somewhat of a sorting system that was automatic and and deal with that, because now it just.

[00:26:39] It was just a big waste of time and making sure that it's a priority to start with, because one of the things with Katrina, when I went into any hiring interview and I was supposed to hire someone, I deeply, deeply, deeply wanted to hire this person to get this problem out of the way. So a lot of the time I hired people, even though it didn't really feel that good just because I wanted to take that thing on my to do list and move on. And I think that was one of the biggest problems. One of the biggest mistakes that I've done in my career has been not spending enough time on a recruitment. They're not prioritizing high enough. So I think that in general, things to take away from from recruitment and the mistakes that I've done in the past and the challenges we have this time.

[00:27:23] I like your summary for the reason that you're speaking from the experiences of running a real company, and that is the purpose for me. You have this update episodes, see the nitty gritty details of actually running a company. Exciting. Now, let's move on to the fourth and final topic. A big part of greater comms business model is that we will be able to get PR from the donations that we make and we just made our first big donation. We tried our wings and we donated one hundred thousand dollars. So how did it go? Did we fly or did before? Eric, how did you do with this donation?

[00:28:08] Well said.

[00:28:10] There's two important things to keep in mind here that a very big part of great outcomes, long term business model will be PR, get websites to write about us and link to us because that helps us high up in Google. So a very big part about what we're going to do is how can we get publicity for the things that we do. So now we try to big projects. We made a big donation. We did a big effort to get everyone aligned and get links and publicity based on this.

[00:28:38] And we got almost nothing way, way less than we had hoped for. And at the same time. I don't see it as a failure. Well, I see partly as a failure, but mainly not as a failure, because we went into this with the perspective, it's very likely that it will fail.

[00:29:02] And I believe that the only real failure is not trying. So I don't see this, that we actually took tested our wings. We threw ourselves off the cliff. We landed flat faced on knocked out, but we learned a lot from it. I think that that was the other big part of it. As I said this already to the team before we did, is that the most important thing right now is to learn. And I feel that we learned a lot about what kind of news will work with magazines and what will not work, at least to learn what will not work. We learned how we can collaborate better together in the team with us. We will learn what we can prepare for the newspapers and how I can prepare for the interviews that actually happen, because I get called up by some newspaper wants to interview me about this and I'm like, I don't know what I'm going to say, because I think that from a PR perspective, it was a failure. We didn't accomplish at all what we wanted to. But from a team building perspective and from a learning perspective, we we made a lot of progress. And I think that's we're going to do one hundred donations more probably hopefully thousands of donations more in the future. So if we learn a little bit at every attempt, we're going to get really, really good at this three years from now.

[00:30:19] Isn't too much money, though, to take in this lesson? Couldn't we have done a much smaller donation to do practice and saved one hundred thousand for later? I mean, it's still share the money that we're gambling with her.

[00:30:31] I wouldn't say that we're giving it away. We would give it away either way. So it would be one thing if we spent one hundred thousand dollars on a PR campaign, but we actually gave away one hundred thousand dollars to a great charity organization that's going to do amazingly good things with this money. And we're hopefully going to give away a lot more money. Well, we are going to give away a lot more money in the future.

[00:30:57] So I don't see this as gambling. If we were to spend it on a marketing company, it would have been one thing. But when we're giving it away to a wonderful cause, worst case scenario, a wonderful organization gets money to do wonderful things. But that's still a pretty good day for everyone.

[00:31:17] Yeah, it's not it's not the worst failure now.

[00:31:22] I'm actually curious to know what didn't work with the newspaper. What about the story didn't work?

[00:31:28] So what I.

[00:31:30] So basically, the press release was about great dotcom donating one hundred thousand dollars to Korona research charity, and I was hoping that this would be something that newspapers wanted to write about, like a tech company in the casino industry giving away money. But it wasn't interesting enough. And I think part of it was that. People don't really care about someone giving away money. It's in itself is not newsworthy enough. That needs to be a bigger spin on it. One hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money, but it's really not that much money when it's about newspapers writing about things. They write about billions here and there all the time. So I think the amount wasn't impressed. It's the angle was only giving it away to Korona. The amount wasn't that big. Now I think that we need to get better at having a spin on something, combining it with something. And I don't really know how or what to do there. I think part of it is that great dotcom or myself isn't famous enough for people to care that great fortune by the donation of one hundred thousand dollars in a similar kind of way.

[00:32:52] But for the climate, because she got that she won some scholarship or whatever it was, and that got shitloads of publicity, but it's because she is so famous in ourselves. So that's also something that's interesting to keep in mind here. It's not just the amount, it's how you do it, who you are when you're doing it.

[00:33:12] And so, yeah, I feel that it's I haven't figured out exactly how we could have done it better, but I figured out what not what's not going to work if we try it again.

[00:33:24] Right. And that is a good start. So what are you proud of with this donation? I'm very proud of that.

[00:33:31] We tried as I said before, I think the only real failure is when you don't try. And I think I felt myself that it's been very easy to get stuck in. OK, let's do this donation later on when we know more. Let's do this donation later on when we have made more money. Let's do let's wait. Let's wait, let's wait. Someone else will fix the climate.

[00:33:52] Someone else will solve this and taking action, even though it felt like it was a big risk of failing. So I feel proud that we choose to do that. I feel proud that we put ourselves out there, that we yeah, we we threw the dart, we missed the board. But we know that, OK, we need to aim a little bit more to the right next time or whatever and. And a lot of projects before and a lot of charity stuff I've never been through in the dark. So, yeah, that's what happened. Right.

[00:34:31] And I like your sentence of saying we threw the dart. And that is what happened from my perspective as well, that the whole team came together and did something. Yeah. As a team, because normally quite split up. One team that is doing a podcast, one that is doing building the product and now everybody working together and everyone had something to do with this PR campaign. So it was a lot of fun to work with team members.

[00:34:54] I normally don't have that close to biggest value that it helps, even if we didn't manage to do get the links, get the PR we were hoping for in the way we were. I think we learned a lot and we collaborated much better than we've done in any other project before, and that was a huge win. So we could see that you could look at it like we were throwing different kinds of darts. And one dart missed the board, but wanted to hit the bull's eye.

[00:35:21] Right.

[00:35:23] We're coming towards the end here. And I have a secret question I just came up with for you. So with great that's come under way, the company is going what is exciting you the most for the next for this autumn? We're kind of starting a new season here.

[00:35:36] So I'm excited about having this podcast coordinator in place.

[00:35:40] I'm excited about shifting focus to the product and things that are happening right now and actually more tangible things, things that you can see happen on the website, things that creates momentum to see where that can can take that. It feels that we have been.

[00:35:59] Building a lot of things for the distant future, and now is the first time that we really dig into this and get going, so I'm very excited to see where we are three months from now or six months from now. It feels like the engine is roaring, but we haven't really let puter stomp, stomp down the gas pedal and put it in first gear.

[00:36:23] That is the feeling I have as well. So.

[00:36:27] We're coming towards the end of the episode, and if someone is listening to this and they feel excited, they felt like they got value of this, maybe they want more people to hear this kind of conversations. What can the listener do to help us?

[00:36:40] The easiest way of helping us at the moment and the most beneficial way for us is to go to a podcast app and click subscribe, because what happens when you subscribe to a podcast is that that sends signals to all the different podcasts topless out there, that this is the podcast that people are interested in and the topolice are actually not based on how many listeners a podcast, and it's based on how big percentage of the listeners choose to subscribe. So even though that we are a very small podcast, we have about a thousand people listening to each episode, every person clicking subscribe makes a big difference for us. If we would have one hundred thousands or millions, each subscriber wouldn't be as important. But no one with such a small podcast, it makes a big difference. So if you want to help us, please go to any podcast app or as many as possible and click subscribe. That would be wonderful for us. Thank you.