ProVeg International Interview

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Every day you and I get bombarded with negative news. And just like our bodies, become what we eat, our minds become the information that we consume. If you want to stay positive, it’s so important that you also listen to stories that inspire you and uplift you. In this podcast we interview leading experts dedicated to solving the world’s most pressing problems. And if you stick around, I promise you will not only be as informed as if you watched the news, you will be uplifted, inspired, and have more positive energy in your life. Welcome to Great.com Talks With.

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Hi and welcome. Today, greater calm talks with Jamie Pearson, who is the U.K. director of Pro Veg dot com, and if you haven’t heard of them before, they are a food awareness organization who wants to help set international guidelines to make the way we eat more pro veg. And if you haven’t done so before, you definitely want to press subscribe on YouTube or in your podcast app, because today we are talking about the benefits of going vegan and vegetarian. And if you do so, more people can hear this kind of conversation.

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Jimi. Hi. Thank you for taking the time to be doing this. Thank you very much.

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I’m hoping you’re watching this on YouTube because I love Jimmy’s smile. I saw it in his profile picture and now I see it on video. It’s fantastic. So, Jim, how would you describe Perovic to someone that is not familiar with what you guys do?

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Yeah, happy to. Well, International is a global food awareness organization. Now, you might probably not have heard of that description before. I’m pretty sure we’re the only one. And what we describe ourselves as that because we focus on food, many of the world’s most urgent problems and talking about climate change, destruction of our environment, public health, welfare of animals and animals and particular food security, these all share a common cause, which is our food choices and the solution mitigates all of these problems can be found in the transformation of our global food system. So that’s what Brobeck does. We work to transform the global food system for the better, and specifically by replacing conventional animal products with plant based and cultured alternatives. And our mission is to reduce global consumption of animals by 50 percent by the year 2014. Wow.

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And by culture alternatives. Do you mean lab grown meat or what are you referring to there?

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Yeah, exactly. Yes. There’s lots of descriptions of that term at the moment. I think a cultured alternative seems to be the preferred. Yeah. I’m talking about like. Yeah. And very much in its infancy. And it’s not something that we’re actively involved in, but something we’re going to support and probably prioritize in the coming decades.

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I’m really looking forward to when that becomes more of a reality. It seems like such a brilliant idea now. So what do you see as the biggest challenges then? Because you want to create a transformation in the world in the way we eat so that people’s mindsets need to get transformed? Or is it political will or is it the economy or where are you guys focusing?

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Yeah, it’s a great question. Well, all of that, really. And I would split it into broadly two main focus areas, but the first one would be individuals really trying to increase individual motivation and secondly, create an institutional change. And to be honest, that’s what we think. That’s the most impactful, if you imagine. Change in the global food

system like climbing a mountain. Increasing individuals and organizations really push up the mountains behind them, blowing them over, whereas the create institutional change is trying to increase the slope, reduce the grain and to really make the journey or flatter. So it’s both of those things, really. And to that end, we work with companies, governments, local governments, public institutions, medical professionals to really help that transition to a society that’s less reliant on culture and more sustainable than humans and animals on the planet.

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Right. So you want to change institutions to make it easier for individuals, but then how are you going about doing that? Because I would assume you need the will of individuals to create that kind of change or how do you change institutions?

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Yeah, it’s a really good question. We devise a range of interventions and programs that are pragmatic and strategic, and they’re aimed at specific institutions. Each one usually on an international level. And the message that we deploy with those institutions varies depending on what they’re focused on. And so we try to speak our language. For instance, most of the individuals that are involved or provide passionately doing this for the animals. But if you’re working with a local government, for instance, that the language that we’re talking might be about saving money rather than animals. So it’s so it’s very it depends program to program. And I’d like to share some of the programs that we have been working on to give you some examples of the kind of work that we have been doing. Yes. Please don’t forget. Well, we’ve we’ve we’ve stepped up our political lobbying work in 2020 and talking about influencing the influence of this is probably as high as it goes, really. And the highlight of which you might well be familiar with. And it was commonly described as the veggie burger ban. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that. It made headlines in 2010. I don’t know. What is that? Well, the European Parliament were voting on a proposal to ban the use of the names of such as burger and sausage from being used on that vegan vegetarian product. So the meat names were a proposal to ban those. And if passed into law, it would have seen veggie burgers renamed as veggie desks and veggie sausages as veggie tubes. You know, it sounds ridiculous in that good name. No, so so we were well, they were proposed supposedly to avoid consumer confusion and under the premise that perhaps consumers were getting confused by what they were buying when they would buy veggie burgers.

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But so was that’s just clearly nonsense. And we worked, we were lobbying and we were speaking to any members of the European Parliament. We were writing letters. We launched a petition which got two hundred and seventy thousand signatures. And we were able and together with lots of media coverage, that we were working with the media to raise the profile of this story. And we were in The New York Times and Forbes and Bloomberg and all the national newspapers in most of the countries in which we’re active. And we were successful in overturning this ban. The vote went in our favor and that saved the plant based sector lots of money in terms of not having to relabel, not having to remarket potential legal costs and. So that was what aspect of our political lobbying that we had to step up and in the future, we also work with companies and retailers and manufacturers and providers of plant based consultancy as well. For instance, we work with little supermarkets in Germany and we consult on their plant based ranges. We provide advice about how they should be framed and how they should be developed. We’ve got helping on ingredients and processes as well. We’ve got stuff to work on that. So we’ve got lots of examples of working with corporates. And when we’re working in supermarkets, we’re obviously just demonstrating the size of the plant based sector, which is continuing to grow, continuing to take market share and. And it is profitable helpfully for us, it’s profitable for retailers to be embracing plant based.

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Well, that work is highly important.

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I can see how hard it is to sell a veggie tube or a veggie bisque to someone that you know how it makes it harder for someone to transition from being a meat eater to being very curious, at least.

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So you also mentioned that you guys are doing work in schools. What kind of work are you doing there? Is it to educate children that there are more options or what work do you do and what challenges do you find there?

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Yeah, thanks for asking. This is a project that’s very close to my heart. It’s in the U.K. where we sit different from country to country. In the U.K., we focus on actually working with the menu decision makers to change the menus, to be less focused on meat products and healthier, more sustainable, more focused on plant based foods so badly needed. And it’s estimated that UK schools serve over 650 million meals per academic year, most of which contain animal products and school food in the U.K., I’m sure it’s the same around the world is unhealthy and generally a very, very poor quality. We can all remember what we are in school. Currently in the U.K. I had these things called Turkey Twizzlers, highly processed. It’s supposedly made of Turkey. And if it wasn’t that, it was rubbery sausages, it was spam fritters. Spam is a canned meat, whatever it was that people were eating, it’s not help. Childhood obesity, it’s not. It’s contributed to children developing unhealthy eating patterns and poor

attitudes towards bacon and vegetarian food. And it’s such an important meal as well, especially in more deprived areas where it’s still the main, if not only meal, the children are being served. So it’s crucial that it’s nutritious, it’s crucial that it’s substantial and they enjoy it. And it’s and too often that’s not happening at the moment. So we work with local governments in the UK. They called local authorities and we provided menu consultancy.

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We advise on the menu. We suggest that they have a meat free day, but don’t call it that. Call it something more positive, like a Planet Power Day or planet friendly theme. The day we work on language to make the veggie dishes more attractive. So, so often we see the meat based dish described with wonderful descriptive words. And then it is just veg curry. And we work on changing the language so it’s more attractive to repositioning. It’s making the veggie option on the top left, on the top line, rather than the second line, which you never say, having it first in the canteen when you walk, when you walk down to get food smart and all kinds of behaviourally. We’re using research and behavioural insights to make these little tiny tweaks that can actually have a major impact. And then we introduce more plant based dishes. We do chef training and we have a range of services, all free of charge. As a non-profit, we’re very fortunate to be supported financially by donations. And it means that we can provide these services to local governments for free. And because it’s so important, because local governments around the world, especially in the UK, operate on a very tight budget. And helpfully, the suggestions that we have to the menu saves them money at the same time, which is often the main driver for a lot of these catering managers.

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Mm. You can imagine what difference that makes, especially on scale and when students have more energy to get through today.

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I just give you an indication about how impactful that might be if there are three hundred and fifty or so local governments that, that, that, that have a lot of schools under their remit and deciding on school menus. And if we just ask one local authority to introduce a new meet every day that her academic year is a million meals. Wow. That is going from meat based to healthier and plant based and more sustainable. And in the last few months, we’ve got another seven local authorities working with us and we’re just hoping for that to grow and grow and grow. And this is there’s a ceiling there’s a limit on how far we can go because this government regulations and guidance say that you can’t have more than two or three days a week, which it was, is really challenging. So on the side, we’re in parallel. We’re working to try and influence those guidelines so that schools and local authorities are able to put on as many free days as they can or one more.

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When you add the numbers together, you get a huge impact, do you also do work to not only make the meals a power plant and meat free, but also more nutritious, meaning, you know, maybe less fried food, meaning maybe less sugar and more.

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Yeah, more nutrient dense food.

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Yeah, that’s definitely part of the plan. And even some of the simple one ingredient swaps like where if it’s a curry or a spaghetti bolognese, swapping the processed mints for red lentils and beans is providing more nutrients straight away. But that’s part of a longer term plan. And we are operating within the boundaries of the time, capacity and the resources that these catering companies have at the local authorities. And Jamie Oliver, you no doubt will be away at a very public campaign to improve school food in Mitsu thousands. And we really support that. We applaud it tremendously. But what he was trying to do was probably too much too quickly. And he was focusing on locally sourced organic food and it ended up being unsuccessful. So we’re trying to get some easier wins in the short term by some quick replacements. But in the long term, absolutely. But that’s something that’s probably more achievable on an individual school level, whether it’s private schools or boarding schools where they’ve got a little bit more money and a bit more freedom to do these things. But, yeah, totally.

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I read on your website that your goal is to reduce the global consumption of animals by 50 percent by the year 2040 and what needs to happen and what are the challenges that are in the way of accomplishing that goal?

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Gosh, there’s probably so much that we could go through here. I suppose in short in summary, I think we need to reach a tipping point where alternatives to animal products are. Just as affordable, just as accessible and just as delicious as animal products, and when we get to that point. I think that the tide could well turn and we’ll see a massive shift because the arguments and the nutrition and the sustainability and the animal welfare all is in the plant based cell based side. But people make decisions and companies make food decisions based on taste affordability and accessibility. And if plant-based alternatives and cell-based can match or meet or better on those three fronts, then I think we’ll see a wholesale shift. And that’s why we that’s why we’re working with with manufacturers and retailers and development to really try and improve plant based offerings so that it’s so that it’s

at that level. And I think public awareness of all the reasons why we need to shift to a more plant based society is growing. It’s different in different countries, obviously, and there’s much work to be done and outside of Europe and outside of the countries in which the provider operates. So we’ve just opened a country branch in China. And you look at the numbers of. Well, the population and the actual quantities of food being consumed is hugely important as well. But I think yeah, I think it’s the development of the alternatives is the key in this, as I say. And also I think that once we get to that point and people are actively choosing the alternatives, then I think that government policy will follow. I think it will follow. I think that will come second rather than first. That’s my view.

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Yeah, that makes sense. So looking at choice, then the individual listening to this episode, what can they do, apart from the obvious of choosing a more vegan food? But what can they do to help reach a tipping point? Tip the scale, maybe do influence. Where is their leverage?

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Yeah, that’s a good question. I think when well, what’s really helped was helpful for me when I started to dip my toes into changing my diet was to start understanding why I was doing that and learning about why and how cloud based is better for the environment, why and how it’s better for my health and the impact that it has on animals and how it can contribute to a fairer, more sustainable food supply. So that was a really important step, I think, for anybody. And once those ones, that understanding is more ingrained within you, then it’s going to be a more long term sustainable changing of diet. So I think that’s the first thing that individuals can do. Yeah, and every meal is a vote for but for this more plant based future. And yeah, there are lots of things that people can do, whether it’s in addition to what they’re eating, communicating about these things is donating to organizations that are working in this space. It’s. Yeah, there’s plenty of things people can do and I’d encourage everyone to sign up to brokerage’s is new newsletter and our social media channels to see how they can actively support us in other organizations and in the space.

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Yeah, so we’re coming towards the end of the interview now, and I was going to ask how someone can keep.

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Keep up to date with what you guys are doing, but I guess also that you guys are offering some kind of community feeling, right?

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If someone that is maybe new to this wants to have some kind of interaction. Do you guys work in that way?

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Yeah, actually, we’ve launched something called the Veggie Challenge, which is an online program whereby people can sign up for for free and they can choose whether to go full vegan, vegetarian or just meat, reduce and set the period of time that they want to do it for. And then they will receive from those loads of support and email every day, advice, guidance, videos to watch, recipes to try other materials to to take in. And then, yeah, part of our community in this mentoring that can go on as well. And that’s a great platform. It’s a great stepping stone for really recommending taking the veggie challenge. And separately in January there’s of course beginning January, which is not part of it’s not program that we run, but we are a group of people that we support and massively so that’s another option for people. And again, like I mentioned, we’ve got a newsletter, different types of newsletters, depending on what kind of contact you’re interested in. And we’ve got offices in eight different countries and across four continents. So wherever you are based, you can sign up to the newsletter in your your region.

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Beautiful now. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with Greater today. It’s highly appreciated. And you certainly inspired me to enjoy a vegan dinner.

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Wonderful. That’s it, thanks for inviting me here. Thank you for sharing your energy and for you listening. Thank you for staying until the end. And if you like this, if you think vegan vegan awareness is important, press subscribe on YouTube or in your podcast app that shows the algorithms that this conversation is important and it will help more people to hear how they can live a more vegan lifestyle. Thank you so much for listening. And we see you in the next episode.

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